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~~@RedRaven:~~
> ~~@Xavis:~~
>
> > Still have no idea what Exorcise does :P
>
> Well my guess is it would undo possession.
You can't cast anything when possessed :P
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Well here is my try at balancing out the spells for the first tier (0-120) Mage classes. - Necromancers
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These are the class crossover spells that are also in Mage class:
[Paladin Spells]: armor, stone skin
[Cleric Spells]: sanctuary, control weather
++[Witch Spells]: fly, blindness
++[Druid Spells]: fireproof, summon, lore, earthquake, calm
++[Monk Spells]: fireproof, stone skin, armor, lore
Suggested changes:
* Remove 'Control Weather' from general mage class and giving it over to the Druid class since it fits better.
* Removing 'Fireproof' from Wizard class and giving it over to the general Cleric class.
* Move 'Lore' to the general Mage spells.
* Move 'Blindness' to the General Mage list since I agree it is a needed pk spell for all mages.
* Wizards have both teleportation spells that are "Gate" and "Nexus". That needs to be balanced out there is no reason Sorcerer should not also have the "Nexus" spell since it complements "Summon".
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Wizards for one they have too many spells some need to be removed or Sorcerer and Necromancer need more spells to balance it out. Personally I suggest doing both. In one way we don't need to add too many new spells and in other we need to move some of them around.
Sorry Wizards I'm picking on you guys the most here but don’t' worry it will balance out in the end. Alright this is all for the Necromancers right now. I'll work on a list for the Sorcerers next.
For Necromancer I suggest creating a new teleport spell call "Shadow Walk".
Shadow Walk - This spell allows Necromancer to walk the shadows between the planes of the living and dead. Unlike Nexus or Gate - Shadow Walk links a Necromancer to a dead body before it decomposes and allows them or their party (if grouped) to walk the shadow plane teleporting them to the location of the dead body (can be player's or a NPC's). Note: This is not an exact location spell. It will find the nearest body with in the area stated by the spell so be careful.
Regents needed: dead body (target) and a bone.
Syntax - Cast 'Shadow Walk'
Example:
Cast 'Shadow Walk' 'Plith' 'Northwest Corner of Plith'
Cast 'Shadow Walk' 'Plith' 'rat'
The spell will then search for a dead rat located at the 'Northwest Corner of Plith' if found it will then stabilize the body and open a portal to that location. The case of the 2nd way of casting the spell it will simple look for a dead rat in Plith warning this is a random. The portal will only stay open until the Necromancer walks through it then it will close, so if they are with a party have your followers go through first unless they are NPCs then they will auto follow. Warning this spell can link to a NPK or CPK room. It is suggested to use a Locate Dead spell or the Look command before entering the portal.
Other new spells for Necromancers:
Locate Dead - This spell allows a Necromancer to locate dead bodies within a given area. This will help then when using 'Shadow Walk' spell.
Syntax - cast 'Locate Dead' Example: cast 'Locate Dead' 'Plith' '10'
This will then generate a list of 10 dead bodies currently in Plith and their room location.
Charm Undead - This spell is like 'animate Dead" only it will allow a Necromancer to better control higher level Undead such as Vampires, zombies, ghosts, wraith, spirits, etc. The spell will only last for 20 hours after that time the undead either must be re-charmed or they will attack the necromancer since they are angry over being controlled.
Syntax - Cast 'charm undead'
Siphon - Unlike 'Energy Drain' that only allows one to draw energy from your opponent this spell allows Necromancers to draw energy from any Charmed dead or undead under their control. Once the dead has been drained fully the body will turn to dust so it cannot be re-charmed. The spell will start draining randomly any dead or undead currently following the Necromancer.
Syntax - Cast 'Siphon'
Banish - This spell will allow a Necromancer who has no more use for a charmed dead to "Banish" it's spirit and return it to the dead. Dead who are banished will turn to dust.
Syntax - Cast 'Banish' Example: Cast 'Banish' elf
This will cause the first dead elf on the follow list to be banished.
Note: Another use for this spell is that any Necromancer can 'banish' a charmed dead of another Necro. So it will be a good one to use in a PK fight between two Necromancers.
Death Eye - This spell allows a Necromancer to look through the eyes of the dead and see what is happening with in a given room. This spell uses the information acquired from 'Locate Dead' spell.
Syntax - Cast 'Death Eye' Example: cast 'death eye' 'plith' 'Northwest Corner of Plith'
Petrify - This spell acts like web in that the victim is unable to move or caste spells for 2 rounds.
Syntax - Cast 'Petrify' Now for one multi room spell:
Carnage - This spell for a random number of rooms casts a ray of icy death in a given direction.
Syntax - Cast 'Carnage' For the last spells something that is room oriented would be nice here so let's go with 2 room spells just for Necromancers.
Tomb Lock - This spell works like 'Room Shield' in some ways. No one except for Necromancers can leave the room while the spell is in place. When in place fire spells cannot be used against the caster nor can anyone teleport out of the room. Otherwise it is just a locked room all other spells and skills are operation able.
Syntax - Cast 'tomb lock'
Wane - This spell is the opposite of 'Inferno' instead it infects the room with a numbing chill of death causing ice damage to all who enter the room. While it does not blind it can cause confusion making one to slow down.
Syntax - Cast 'wane'
As a last item Necromancers should also have a skill something like skull. If you have ever seen Necromancers at work they are always shown with skulls and bones all about them.
I hope the above gets you all thinking these are only a suggested list to balance out Necromancers vs Wizards. It all can change so please play with these ideas, add to them or come up with better ones.
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This is a good list of ideas. I really like the shadow walk, locate dead, and the others that revolve around that.
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~~@Elmah:~~
> This is a good list of ideas. I really like the shadow walk, locate dead, and the others that revolve around that.
I changed Drain to Siphon it sounds better and less confusing. I tried to make them interactive.
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[illusionist skills]:
1) momentary darkness
2) spell deflection
3) wind of confusion
Well this idea comes from Baldur's Gate/DAI Playstation2\. Personally I like it and would love to see Illusionist use this spell.
Faith's Sword - This spell when casted creates a spirit sword that does 1 to 10 points of damage (uses the same ticks as a bow does now only it auto repeats until it is dispelled or the target is dead). The sword lasts for 20 hours and must be directed to its target. While it does low damage, still it can disrupt spells being casted by the target and its repeated attacks are indepenant from its caster. The sword will not cause it's target to attack the caster nor dimish the caster's attacks.
Well you get the idea here. It's a low level annoyance.
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~~@Xavis:~~
> ~~@RedRaven:~~
>
> > ~~@Xavis:~~
> >
> > > Still have no idea what Exorcise does :P
> >
> > Well my guess is it would undo possession.
>
> You can't cast anything when possessed :P
Someone else could cast it to release u.
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I guess I don't see as big a balance issue between necro and wizard.
But here's my opinion on this:
Shadow Walk: Greatly overpowered. Imagine the CPK consequences. One person of lets say level 55 CPK's a member of a church who is also level 55\. The 120 in the church sees the death message, and shadow walks right to the person (since there's little guess work when you realize what is around you) and the 120 goes in and CPK's the offendor. While it is all in the spirit of CPK, it really deters people from fighting more than anything else.
Charm Undead: Good in theory, but I'm not sure what we would improve over regular charm besides level you could charm. And that could be dangerous because we might have some cases as extreme as someone walking around with Scarm as a pet (an exageration, but still something that needs to be considered)
I like Siphon. Might need to make it do a lot more damage than it heals the necro, however, because you can charm a level 120 mob and never have to regen hp
Petrify looks alright, but it should probably cost a moonstone. 2 rounds of spell free combat would give anyone time to do SERIOUS damage.
Not sure about Carnage. Seems like that'd be more of a remort skill if anything.
Tomb Lock seems overpowered as well. Need some other opinions on it first though because I don't know much about room shield either.
Wane is good, except casting slow costs a moonstone, so it would either need a moonstone or you should maybe look for another affect.
I liked most of these ideas, but I wasn't aware of the problem between necros and wizards.
eRT
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~~@Ertai:~~
> I guess I don't see as big a balance issue between necro and wizard.
>
> But here's my opinion on this:
>
> Shadow Walk: Greatly overpowered. Imagine the CPK consequences. One person of lets say level 55 CPK's a member of a church who is also level 55\. The 120 in the church sees the death message, and shadow walks right to the person (since there's little guess work when you realize what is around you) and the 120 goes in and CPK's the offendor. While it is all in the spirit of CPK, it really deters people from fighting more than anything else.
Ok this is based on the current Nexus and Gate spells. If you want it could be just NPC bodies instead of players. I figure it needs work but over all it's not that far off from what Wizards have currently in that they just need someone who will allow them to Nexus or Gate to them.
~~@Ertai:~~
> Charm Undead: Good in theory, but I'm not sure what we would improve over regular charm besides level you could charm. And that could be dangerous because we might have some cases as extreme as someone walking around with Scarm as a pet (an exageration, but still something that needs to be considered)
Like with the current Animate Dead there is a level limit so no you would NOT be walking around with Scarm instead we're just talking maybe adding for undead NPC's 10 more levels.
~~@Ertai:~~
> I like Siphon. Might need to make it do a lot more damage than it heals the necro, however, because you can charm a level 120 mob and never have to regen hp
I have never been able to charm a level 120 mob. If there is a level limit for charming then there is no problem here. This is more an idea for a Necro to be able to keep their hp/mana up durning a fight.
~~@Ertai:~~
> Petrify looks alright, but it should probably cost a moonstone. 2 rounds of spell free combat would give anyone time to do SERIOUS damage.
Please note Web does NOT require a moonstone. This spell is a total vs to web. I figured it would have to be tweeked but remember requiring a moonstone and not the same for Web defeats the purpose totally. Also the web spell goes for more rounds than I said here.
~~@Ertai:~~
> Not sure about Carnage. Seems like that'd be more of a remort skill if anything.
It is vs Afterburn that Wizards have right now.
~~@Ertai:~~
> Tomb Lock seems overpowered as well. Need some other opinions on it first though because I don't know much about room shield either.
Again it's vs Room Shield.
~~@Ertai:~~
> Wane is good, except casting slow costs a moonstone, so it would either need a moonstone or you should maybe look for another affect.
Well that can be changed the idea was to weaken the other person. So play with it.
~~@Ertai:~~
> I liked most of these ideas, but I wasn't aware of the problem between necros and wizards.
>
> eRT
Yes there is a huge problem between the two. while you see me having fun with Animate Dead pretty much all the other spells for Necro suck. The kill spell is the only powerful one and that was tone down. Right now with Afterburner, Room shield, Web, Blindness, etc Wizards can blast away any other mage class.
When I thought up these I was at the same time looking over the other spells. None of these are all that much off from what is already there I just tried to flavor them a bit more for Necro taste. Again remeber we're not talking about charming a 120 mob only about charming 10 levels above what is there now. As for CPK, PKing I did tried to think of something good for those but I'm not a PKer so you will need to balance that out too.
Anyway it's thoughts to get things going here. Keep posting.
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~~@RedRaven:~~
> ~~@Xavis:~~
>
> > ~~@RedRaven:~~
> >
> > > Well my guess is it would undo possession.
> >
> > You can't cast anything when possessed :P
>
> Someone else could cast it to release u.
But why on earth should stupid worthless as a possession undo-er take a shard?
Oh, and Jazz, I can't believe you forgot the most important spell in any Necromancer's resume. CORPSE EXPLOSION!@#
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~~@Xavis:~~
> Oh, and Jazz, I can't believe you forgot the most important spell in any Necromancer's resume. CORPSE EXPLOSION!@#
Now that one Vermonard suggested but I thought it might be too grossed. Then again….you know what would be better is being able to booby-trap corpses.
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I think the balance issues between necros and wizards have been grossly overstated. I do support a reworking of necromancer to make them more death focused, but I can't agree with much of what's been suggested. The balance implications of almost any of those suggestions being imp'd would be…disastrous. If you can't say something nice, say nothing....*silence*
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Change the kill spell back to how it used to be. :) Oh, and how about making lore a global skill where you can use it to look at items your level or lower, and use identify to lore items above your level.
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How would that be disastrous? All the spells I came up with are not that far off from the current ones Wizards have right now. All I did was add a Necro taste and made a few differences. Currently Wizards have at least 2 spells that should be Remort Archmage spells because they are too powerful those are Afterburn and Starflare. And yes I have used those spells and seen them in action. They also control all the gate and teleport spells as well as most of the room effect spells.
I didn't set what I suggested in stone I would like to see it mulled over and something come out of this. These are only a start. Look at what wizards now have and you will see what is missing for the other mage classes. I would suggest you do as I have an make a alt Necro and see what I'm talking about here. Right now when I play my wizard even though they are small they are cleaning up. That is not right.
I don't think it's grossly overstated in the least in fact I think it's understated. Just 6 Necro spells compared to 22 Wizard? I don't think that shows a balance do you?
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I also think wizards should lose starflare and afterburner and archmages should get it :P
I would think Archmages would be the battle mages of all the offensive spell casting classes.
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I either don't know what exorcise does, or don't know the point of it. And Syn, that explanation of Turn Undead didn't help (me, at least) at all.
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A couple of your responses to my post didn't seem to fit. Since I am completely inept, I will try to quote these as best I can.
>Ertai wrote:
>I like Siphon. Might need to make it do a lot more damage than it >heals the necro, however, because you can charm a level 120 >mob and never have to regen hp
>I have never been able to charm a level 120 mob. If there is a >level limit for charming then there is no problem here. This is more >an idea for a Necro to be able to keep their hp/mana up durning >a fight.
I have a mort that could charm level 105 mobs from level 105 and let me tell you, they have a LOT of hp to siphon away
>Ertai wrote:
>Petrify looks alright, but it should probably cost a moonstone. 2 >rounds of spell free combat would give anyone time to do >SERIOUS damage.
>Please note Web does NOT require a moonstone. This spell is a >total vs to web. I figured it would have to be tweeked but >remember requiring a moonstone and not the same for Web >defeats the purpose totally. Also the web spell goes for more >rounds than I said here.
How does 2 rounds of no casting even compare with however long it takes you to dispel before you can flee? I can survive a fight without having to flee (as long as it is a close fight) whereas in the same fight, if I had 2 rounds that I was incapacitated I would be destroyed. Think of it in player aspects since this would rarely be used on mobs. Have you ever fought a player that was close to your level/skill level where you have gone for 2 whole rounds without casting any spells? Only in instances where circle would be more helpful and there was no sense of urgency.
I think that a couple of these spells (with more restrictions) would not be detremental to the balance, but again, I have very little knowledge about either class besides what is documented. However, more than that would just cause more problems (and some of these suggestions would put one class over the top even if they were the only ones imp'd)
eRT
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Shadow Walk - I say limit it to the same area you are in, or drain the movement of the necromancer to 1\. Maybe require a moonstone to go between areas.
Tomb Lock & Siphon- I agree, those are a bit much.
Wane - sounds like something ice storm should do (or does).
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Ok, here are more idea for necros:
Soul drain - the necromancer strips the soul from a mob corpse, giving the necro a shield of ethereal energy. With each drain, the shield strengthens, upto the level of the necromancer. The duration of the spell affect should be proportional to the necro's level. Maybe allow this in restricted PK situations, possibly adding one minute to the dead player's death timer.
As an alternative, this could be used to strengthen the existing "shield" spell to a certain degree higher than the caster's level (not the spell affect's level since someone 3x your level could have put shield on you).
Shadow Veil - A flee technique that operates like a flash "momentary darkness" that conceals the direction the necro fled and hides them from "where" for atmost a tick. Makes them (Hidden) for that time as well and doesn't wear off if they move, although anyone with "detect hidden" can see them. Can only be done during combat. All these affects are not guaranteed either. If they recall/gohome/gohall, these affects are canceled immediately.
Feign - yes, remember that? Why not allow necros to feign as any mobs in the area, provided they've been in the area long enough.
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@Ertai:
> A couple of your responses to my post didn't seem to fit. Since I am completely inept, I will try to quote these as best I can.
>
> >Ertai wrote:
>
> I have a mort that could charm level 105 mobs from level 105 and let me tell you, they have a LOT of hp to siphon away
>
> –---------------
>
> Well the best I have done charm wise is a level 90 mob. Dont' know why it is really. Confusion here I think I'm talking "Animate Dead" - Charm here not "Charm Person" spell that's different and is currently with all Mage classes. Also it's limited to undead only and I would not hav it go over level 90 mobs anyway. Does that help?
>
> Wtih Animate Dead if you try to charm and animate a corps over level 80 it will tell you it's too hard for your skill level. I can animate all mobs except for the mapdemon on level 1 POA. When I look at the group none of them go over level 70\. We're only talking 20 more levels here not the whole range.
>
> ------------------
>
> >Ertai wrote:
>
> >Petrify looks alright, but it should probably cost a moonstone. 2 >rounds of spell free combat would give anyone time to do >SERIOUS damage.
>
> >Please note Web does NOT require a moonstone. This spell is a >total vs to web. I figured it would have to be tweeked but >remember requiring a moonstone and not the same for Web >defeats the purpose totally. Also the web spell goes for more >rounds than I said here.
>
> >Have you ever fought a player that was close to your level/skill level where you have gone for 2 whole rounds without casting any spells?
>
> --------------------
>
> All the time when I get nailed. Most of the time they fix it so I can't caste a damn thing for well over 2 rounds. So been there done that hate it. Still I was just trying to make it not "Same as Web" peg a different spell to it. The idea was something to vs web.
>
> ------------------
>
> I think that a couple of these spells (with more restrictions) would not be detremental to the balance, but again, I have very little knowledge about either class besides what is documented. However, more than that would just cause more problems (and some of these suggestions would put one class over the top even if they were the only ones imp'd)
>
> -----------------------
>
> One Class is already over the top that is Wizard. Please look over what they have it is already over powering. When I started as a Necro there was a balance. I pretty much flipped a coin over having Engery Drain or Channel. That was pretty much the difference at the time between Necro and Wizard but now the gap has grown.
>
> Then many of the spells were moved around and Wizards had a ton added. There was talk of coming up with new spells for Necro but it didn't happen instead more was added to Wizards.
>
> There was talk about the Necro Kill spell vs Slit throat and in the end the spell was made less affective. Really Ertai please look over the Wizards and the Necro spells and talk to those of us who are both. There is a big difference and inbalance. In fact look how many players are Necro compared to Wizards. I only know of a few who are Necro right now.
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I'm still up for adding timers to spells instead of reagants to control the balance issue. For example.
Everyone was complaining that you can easily spam heal twice a round. Then they made the casting time twice as long. Now everyone bitches that it takes too long to cast (which it does imo :P). If spells had recovery timers on them, You could cast heal as fast as you could before, but not as often as before. lemme try to do a diagram here…
Legend: R=Round *=casting time "=downtime H=Heal @=spell completion -=time in between rounds.
..R1-------------------R2-------------------R3
...H****@''''''''''''''''''''H*****@'''''''''''''''''
This solves the spam issue and the length issue as well.
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Very tricky, Xavis… subtle but different. I like this idea from a mortal standpoint because it does keep people from spamming heal, but allows them to have a chance at attacks within each round. Not sure how it would be coded, but I like it
eRT
