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This may appear to be a complaint post, but I'm just getting a bit peeved that my mage subclass is seemingly getting undercutted left and right. I'll try to make some ideas as far as fixing them, so as not to be a complete complaint.
1) The kill spell. Most of us know that it is canceled by the sanctuary spell or by having a kill immunity/resistance. Additionally, even if those weren't an issue, it only works on weaker mobs, mobs that could be dealt with by simply attacking them for less mana drain. Not only that, even if the kill spell were successful, there's no experience to be had with it. You just waste your mana. So what's the point in having the spell? None with all these factors in.
Some view this spell as well as the slit-throat as insta-kills that takes the effort out of killing. I disagree. For the kill spell, I still have to cast the spell to do it, just as I would with casting any other combat spell that could kill the victim in a snap. Yet, the latter spells would give me experience. Casting kill does not, same as the assassin slit throat. Lukus suggested giving half the normal experience gained when doing either method, seems fair to me. After all, you DID manage to kill the mob with one attack.
Now onto the business of effectiveness. For one thing, I will concede to the fact that mobs with a kill immunity are not possible to 'kill' outright. But, mobs without it, should have a possibility, regardless of level for the 'kill' spell to work. A necromancer that tries to kill a mob that's too big for them and fails to do so, deserves what's coming to them. Another things has to do with sanctuary canceling the kill spell, yet suffering no ill-effects from such an action. Personally, I think that if the kill spell is stronger level wise and percentage wise, it should weaken the sanctuary safeguard by a few notches, all the way down to zero. "Permanent" sanctuary spells should probably be down graded to a ***really*** long time. They can be dispelled or canceled. They should also be able to be weakened.
2) Possess spell. Those that were around when it was still usable know that it was abused. Well, I agree with a temporary banning of its use until it was fixed. Well, why not give possess the same restrictions as charm person does. They are basically the same spell; however, I think charm should only work on the living while possess should only work on the dead/undead. Give the victim, regardless as to whether it's a mob or player, the ability to BREAK the hold on them. Perhaps a 'resist' command. Perhaps have some mental spell affect that can ward off intrusions, that can be weakened with sufficient bombardment.
3) Animate Dead spell. They make cute, cuddly zombies that you can't kill once you release them. :P Please fix that. I do believe that it's due to the "pet" flag being set on them and not being turned off.
4) Raise Dead spell. Ok, this has got to be the most expensive useless spell in existance. Originally, it worked on players, which is a reason I think it was given the 1000 cost of mana. Yet, when I finally get to use it, I find out it doesn't work on players. Why? Because remorts have resurrect, which makes raise dead a moot spell. It only works on mobs and what's the point in that? So it can be killed again?
What *I* suggest is the following, collaborated with Lukus on:
Allow players within a certain level range of the caster to be raised from the dead with the spell, since it only depletes mana. Resurrect can be left to restore completely with the massive drain on vitals; whereas, raise dead could merely revive the corpses to a weak set of vitals, say based on the skill rating. And have the level range skill dependant as well.
Another bit, if the necromancer isn't good enough, yet succeeds at reviving a PLAYER, is to leave their remaining death timer on them to represent the lingering effects of the spell. The affects would not restrict the person from doing anything as if they were dead. No, not that. Rather, prevent them from naturally regenerating, even if they sleep or are in a high regen room. That would not stop external healing spells though from being cast upon them; however, given they still have linger effects from being dead as well as all that mana coursing through them, that healing spells should have a high chance of backfiring, hurting them. :) Raising the dead should be a tricky venture for a mortal and the death timer bit should be used to deter people from ignoring death. Also, the longer someone has been dead, the harder it is for raise dead to work. Could make the death timer vary to make this more interesting, say from 5 to 15 minutes?
The only restriction I think that should be put on resurrect is make it limited to ones alignment, with no limit to the level. Good with Good, Neutral with Neutral, Evil with Evil. However, with raise dead being limited by level, it should work on any alignment.
A way to compare resurrect and raise dead is to think of resurrect as done via one's deity, sacrificing your lifeforce into that of the victim. Raise dead is pure mana depletion, and alot of it.
Ok, that is all. :)
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well, long ago, when there was no such thing as a remort, raise dead was a good way of reviving people who had died. yes, there is a signficant amount of mana involved. but it still has a function for morts, since they dont have resurrect. its helpful for formations, instead of waiting for ppl to come back.
i agree the necro class is missing something. dont know what, but anyone else that has something, lets hear it :)
soth
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Well, I was told it doesn't work on players. :cry:
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A few points, resurrect - no vitals drain if used on your churchies.
- can only be used on lower levels. Even a
level 100 remort can not resurrect a
churchie who is 101 mort or higher.
Not sure if that level restriction is on raise dead, I dont think it is, as I use only resurrect now that noone is higher level than me. But as far as I know it can be used on players. Target for both is corpse though, not player name. That may have been your problem.
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yes, res works. i used it on belexus twice last night, about an hour before the crashes. worked just fine.
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Well, hopefully the people that said I couldn't just interpreted what I said as animate dead. I could try it on someone that dies if I'm near their corpse and see what happens. I've yet to try it on a person's corpse. I've only done raise dead on mob corpses (for practice sake).
Now, I would think that my suggestions, however restrictive they appear to be, might help balance such a powerful mortal spell. I aimed at preventing my ideas from striking out at the resurrect command and screaming for its unfairness. I realize now that the remort process would undoubtedly bestow substantial powers onto your body. :) Merely trying to keep my subclass from turning into an utter farce.
And the level restriction is on raise dead I would have to believe. It's on animate dead, so it's safe to assume raise dead has the same characteristics.
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:heh: Appears that raise dead works just like resurrect, just in spell form.
Anyways, I think limiting raise dead in the ways I mentioned would put more umph into the fact that resurrect is for remorts.
Another tweak for raise dead, if the player you raise from the dead is in your church, perhaps take away the level restriction, otherwise have the life draining spell level restricted.
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Here's a necro idea. How about a spell called "decay?" It would be kind of like a poison, only more. It would slowly ebb away the victim's HP, as well as their strength. They wouldn't be able to hold as much weight, and they'd do less damage, take more damage, etc. Eventually it would kill them unless they got rid of it. Due to the potential power of this spell, I think it should be expensive, maybe as much as raise dead even.
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You have to remember tho, poison is a weak spell. Only taking like 16 hp per tick, and each tick is a minute long. Before we fix spells, we should shorten the ticks so we can do more things with spells and such.
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Shorten the ticks, the best suggestion on the entire message board.
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Not to take this too far off-topic…
Shortening the tick is a double edged sword. Yes, it will make things happen quicker, but you also run the risk of overloading the server the shorter you make it with too many things happening in a tick. True, it wouldn't be much of a problem on a fast machine and/or with efficient code.
Just my two-cents on the shortened tick bit.
Now onto the current topic:
Some ADDITIONS that __could__ be made for necromancers:
1) I've suggested this before once already long ago, but I'll iterate the idea. A spell called "Wall of Souls" or "Ethereal Shield". Functions sort of like Electric Barrier in how it can attack during a fight.
2) Since necromancers are meant to harness the power of the netherworld and such, why not allow a necro of sufficient power be able to LEAVE the death plane and manifest themselves into the living world as a ghost. This would lead to death interactions as well as having some kind of holy banishment (perhaps Paladins?), sending the necro back to the death plane with a reset death timer. :)
3) …... I forgot -_- will think of it later.
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I like those suggestions, can only imagine what kind of havoc i could raise as a dead undead :)
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The Barrier Spells are pretty much useless, so the new one you suggest would have to be different from that, to be of any use. As for the other suggestion, I think that one is a very good one. But I think maybe you would have to expand on it. Here is what I suggest.
1) First a new spell, with it's own abilitiy, and working with this "ghost" ability. The spell would be called something along the lines of "preserve mind". What this does is shell off a little piece of your mind, so that when you die part of your mind is still intact, allowing you to perform this "ghost" ability. The spell would also shorten your death timer, depending on your skill in the spell, and maybe depending on level.
2) The "ghost" ability would have to be clarified a lot. Here are some suggestions: You act just as if you were alive. You are able to quest, kill mobs, talk on public channels, all of that junk. EXCEPT, you cannot initiate, or be attacked by players, except in CPK. This would be the tamer version of what I think could be done. The non tame version would be this: The "ghost" player gets 1/8 of their total stats (hp, mana, moves) taken away, and their race flagged to ghost, or whatever. They would retain all skills and spells, with an added skill. They would also receive the Vulnerabilities of a "ghost" but not any new Resists.
So yeah, after all that, let me hear what you think ;)
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INteresting. I like the premises
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Well, instead of getting 87.5% of their vitals everytime, how about that be what you'd get if you mastered the ability. Have the skill randomly generate the vitals from the max value to a minimum value ranging from 25% to the maximum. Thus, as you get better, your vitals stabilize closer toward the limit.
But… just imagine the death counts on people that would try to practice that.
However, for this idea to be of any use, death would have to be extremely long (else there would be no point to doing this) or death would be quasi permanent with the resurrect/raise dead or some other available methods being the only way to revive yourself. If death were made permanent, then having stuff to do while dead would be an interesting idea. Plus, you should be able to keep your body so you can do things while in the death plane other than be a "ghost". :) Perhaps restrict the perm-death to Level 31+ so first classers can get used to dying (give THEM the long death timer). :)
Would make the game different. :)
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Of course the vitals wouldn't be the same everytime, that was just an arbitrary number. Everything would have to be worked out.
As for the death timer. None of that is neccessary. The only thing that would need to be changed is if the skill is successfuly completed, the necromancers death timer doesn't move, or moves at a much slower rate, like 10 times slower, etc. Either that or the skill lasts for a certain time, and when it's done, the "ghost" returns to it's dead body and the death timer continues. Something along those lines.
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Maybe I'm just really tired or maybe this really doesn't make a lot of sense, but it sounds to me like you're asking to punish necromancers just so you can get another spell. I'm not sure about all the changes in death timer because it seems as though our death system is pretty fair currently. 5 minutes is plenty painful during times like double exp, but not aggrovating enough to encur hatemail being sent to me.
If someone could make summarize what ya'll have decided on and what needs to be decided (theoretically of course) in 2 short paragraphs I (and possibly others) would understand better and maybe be more on board with the idea
eRT
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Permanent death… why? Why? Is it just me, or would that completely suck for any character who doesn't have that spell?
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Ert… The necromancer could well choose not to cast this spell, but if they did, it would not be bad for them... If they choose to cast the spell, it would LOWER their death timer, since they have more power over the death magicks. That would be the first function of the spell. The second function would be, if they are dead with the spell on them, then they can use the skill to become a ghost. While being a ghost they can do things just as if they were alive, but with the penalties to the vitals. This would be very good for them, as they do not have to wait for their death timer to go away to continue what they were doing, as in double exp times. When their ghost skill wore off, then they would have to wait their five minutes to come back to life.
I do not support permanent death, that is useless and would change the game too much :)
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ahh, that's much more clear. I was under the impression that someone wanted them to get a longer death timer unless they used that spell.
Not exactly sure about the ghost spell… dead people become ghosts already, and I guess you'd need to work out how much the first spell would lower the death timer and a few other things. However, there would definately need to be some restricts and penalties.
eRT
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I think people are Shades when they die… but it could be named whatever it needed to be. Of course there would need to be restrictions, and the death timer would be lowered very little, probably 3 minutes max when you're very high level and have the spell very high %. Specifics would be worked out, but I'm wondering if this is a conceivable idea. It would be a nice addition and maybe draw in more people to play necromancer.
