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With all of the current discussion surrounding classes, I'm thinking of getting rid of the class->subclass system and just letting people pick 4 (8 with remort) professions out of 24 to follow. I.e. you could have 2 mage and 2 cleric classes, etc. Is this a good or bad idea?
If this were to be implemented, I would allow people some leniency letting them switch their subclasses if they want to. I realise many people are unhappy with their class choices right now because of the mass balancing changes in the game, and I intend to fix that as soon as everything we have is properly documented. They would of course have to level and multi over again, and they wouldn't be able to keep the skills from the class they switch out of, but I would let them do it for all 8 classes most likely.
Is this a good idea or a bad idea? I wouldn't mind some feedback 8-)
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i think its a solid idea, IF its done properly…
would there be some reward for the skills and spells we lose, or would we just have to start over?
for instance, if Soth wanted to change from necro to wizard, i'd lose all the hp, spells, and class skills i've accumulated....or would i have the option to get those back at some future point?
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I've been saying this for a few years.
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I think this is an excellent idea.
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Well, would the alignment restrictions remain in place? Ie, would wizards be good and neutral only? I mean, wasn't that only for the class->subclass system?
Also, the subclasses would need to be looked at closely and PROPERLY balanced so not one single subclass has too much power. Otherwise, you'd have people choosing wizard+sorceror and having so much power it's pathetic. PK would be an ever bigger joke than it is now.
That's my two cents.
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Also, I'd like to see hp modifiers for the subclasses taken.
Something like:
+50 hp, -75 mana, +25 stamina for each warrior class
+25 hp, +25 mana, -50 stamina for each cleric class
-50 hp, +75 mana, -25 stamina for each mage class
+25 hp, -50 mana, +25 stamina for each thief class
Just examples, but you get the idea. Gives a bit more variety in stats so everyone doesn't end up the same.
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it sounds like a good idea but…would people who have already put years of work into their char completely LOSE everything they've already worked their asses off for?
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* You wouldnt lose any hp, mana, etc from switching subclasses. the only thing you would lose is the stuff specific to that subclass (skills, spells and possibly the +2 stat bonuses)
* Nobody would have to switch or be compelled to. I.e. you wouldn't lose anything (except skills that you wern't supposed to have in the first place, like some of the wizards having silence and what not).
Xev, I can definitely see your point. However keep in mind that this is somewhat self balancing in a way… That is you can go 2 mage classes, but you HAVE to give up a cleric, a thief, or a warrior altogether, and it would also limit your choice of remort subclasses (the remort class limits would still be in place).
I don't know if we'd have align restrictions still. I doubt they would be as stringent. I'm not too sure at this point :P
Once again keep in mind this is just an idea for discussion. I'm not saying we're going to add it, I just wanted to hear some (civil) discusison about its pros and cons. So please refrain from freaking out at possible bad implications... just list them here so we can look them over.
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i wasnt really freaking out, just wanted to know :D
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I think this would be great and could allow for more specialized characters.. only two things.
I agree with Ith that stat bonuses for classes would be really good. Although I think I'd change the numbers a tad, it would also help my second point a lot.
Sort of in line with that, perhaps characters should be a bit more proficient at what they go multiple classes for? i.e. a person who goes 3 warrior classes could do more damage than someone who only went 1 and 3 mage classes. Because the skills from warrior classes especially overlap greatly, and I'd really enjoy making a character who was like a highly-trained combat specialist. I mean, a person who has had training in 2 or 3 different types of combat should be able to do more damage than someone who has only learned one. In the same vein, someone who goes 2-3 mage classes should cast much more consistently and perhaps have a few spells be more potent, and a person who goes 2-3 thieves should be able to steal much easier, quicker, and from higher-level victims.
Addendum: If this was implemented, I think I'd actually make an alt. Yes, __I__ would actually make an alt.. a scary thought, but possible.
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And with this you could make more specialized parties to complete more specialized quests. Have a party with a thief, a mage ..one character of each class ..to accomplish one task. It would be nifty
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I really like this idea, but the problem I see is that many of the skills/spells are overlapped by classes. If more of them were specific to just one class instead of all classes it would be worth it to give up a class.
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I sincerely want this to be implemented ASA-freaking-P. Syn, if you need any help coding or anything, or any help with balancing or testing stuff, I would really like to help in any way possible. I do have a little experience with C and C++.. though unfortunately I know the game's in C and my C++ stuff is useless there.
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I have suggested something like this for years. The only exception I see is the lost of practices. If people could be credited for the practices that would be good.
I also agree that the cross over spells and skills need to be taken out and the sub-classes made much more solid. Still the classes do need to be worked on and several brought up to snuff.
I would love to see someone go all warrior or mage but also to balance the two put in a VULNERABILITY/RESISTANCE system. If you go too much to one class your going to suffer a shift in the balance. If you go all warrior you have a % of vulnerablity to magic and for a mage you have a % of vulnerablities to weapons. Well you get the idea. If you keep to a balance of sub-classes your Vul/Res are milder.
It would be nice to see all the combos and give them titles. I would gladly do up charts for it all. Grin
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I think instead of the vulnerability/resist system you suggest, which could be quite viable, a system like I suggested before would be better.. it's somewhat the opposite; if you go more than one of a type of class, you get stronger in that profession… for more explanation, refer to my earlier post.
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~~@Darigaaz:~~
> I think instead of the vulnerability/resist system you suggest, which could be quite viable, a system like I suggested before would be better.. it's somewhat the opposite; if you go more than one of a type of class, you get stronger in that profession… for more explanation, refer to my earlier post.
Still if you don't have or are limited in one profession there should be some kind of vulnerablity. If a person goes all warrior they are not (other than with weapons and potions) going to have much defence against someone casting magic.
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How long has the current mage, theif, etc thing been working? Yeah it does limmit a lot of stuff but it helps make the game more balanced, I think some classes are a little too screwed up and need fixing, such as the necro, and i think there should be hand to hand weapons like iron knuckles etc. But over all the system we have now helps create balance.
The warrior classes are balanced, they make it hard to chose because they all have good qualities.
Mage classes are kinfa favored to druids for the enchant ability from what i am seeing, but some people still branch off.
Sorcerred and Wizards are good but other than drain life and if you want to be nice the resorect spell, necros need some work from what i see.
And I don't really go to far into the thief classes but bards have some dealdy songs, and at an early level they can REALLY do some damage fast with the dispel song. I ahve never used them though so I don't know how they work.
In conclusion I think that sytem works and I like it the way it is.
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I also think the current system works relatively well and certainly isn't __bad__ now. However, the way it is, __everyone__ has __everything__; everyone has heal, everyone has blind, everyone has all 4 types of classes and we're all very similar in skill sets. I want to see characters get specialized in one area. This allows for much more diversity, and adds vastly more, I think, fun to the game. Just think if in real life everyone was the same, or at least like 80-90% the same; life would be absurdly boring.
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I think the response has been positive so far. This has pretty deep implications, so I'm not going to implement it until I'm ready (i.e. I'm not going to work it into this next update, but I will definitely look at implementing it thereafter). I'm polishing up the new version and it's looking better and better. Thank you all for your feeback.
Dari, I agree with the need for variety. I think it's really bland when everyone has heal/blind etc- I think the complexity that would arise from having truly diverse class choices would be much better for game dynamics and PK as a whole.
I've gotten the feedback I need on this topic so far, so I'm gonna un-sticky it but leave it open in case anyone wants to add anything else. I'll dig it back up when I start working on this, which won't be for a little while… but it's still open for discussion.
In the meantime please comment on my other post about mage spells 8)
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If subclass changes are going to be made, I think that there would need to be an adjustment to skills. A three class warrior should have an advantage over an all single class person. First class warrior should see easy to use weapons such as dagger, sword, staff and exotic. I say exotic because it really could mean just anything you pick up and use as a weapon. Be given dodge, second attack and other minor skills, save the magical items usage. This sort of treatment should used across all classes. A one class mage casting fireballs and such just doesn't make sense to me. Or a first class thief blackjacking and slitting people.
As stated somewhere else, I have always been a proponent of giving hidden skills and spells to the specified class. For example, a third class cleric could gain a spell called heaven's wrath, that would not be a known skill until they reach the right level and class requirement. Or disguise for the four class person, which would in effect be a shift type skill. They could disguise themselves to be a mob of the area they are currently in. Due to the generalization of their skills, they are better adept at being able mimic their surroundings.
