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Yeah, being a lich, I am getting owned by anyone with a fireball, flamestrike, demonfire, pyroblade, the list goes on (fire is the most common weapon as well as the most common vuln, at least in the evil/neutral area) and spirit rack is severly weak, so I might as well use circle in a fight against a dracon. Lichs are supposed to be super magic creatures, but I hardly even use magic, its too slow, takes a lot of mana, and I'm better off with my swords. Not to mention the ownage I take to magic effects, the Bag Man of olaria was beating the crap outta me, and he has magic, so I mean, whats up with that? The two vulns on lich seem quite overpowered since bludgeon (i.e. fists, clubs, maces)is quite common primarily fist and kick, and fire everything is fire anymore, especially 3rd class and up.
-Baelwolf
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Umm Spirit Rack is weak? It requires no movement, it does cold damage, I don't think it is blockable in any way, and it is actually faster than circle. I have a lich, I know it is very affective. If you aren't using it correctly then its your own fault. Liches have shit for life, but the most mana in the game. No one said it would be easy to be a lich. So learn to not ever get hit. Liches will also have to aquire every hp armor/weapon/light in the game because eventually, they are going to get hit. Liches are very good and have vulns just like every one else.
As far as vulns, other than humans, every race in the game has one. So you are just going to have to just be careful, and use the classes best fit for a lich. So being mounted I think may be the worst idea ever for a lich.
Emtae
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I still say that Fire isnt the way to go, it's incredibly easy to get hit by fire, and everyone has it, and does a crapload of damage. What I don't understand though is, why are lichs immune to charm? I havent ever seen charm used on a character, let alone many mobs. Maybe it could be swapped out for a different one?
Also, a side note, does anyone else think that poison needs to be revamped a bit? I've not seen it too effective in combat or after even, it doesnt really do much, perhaps if it were to take on the property of toxins? Something along those lines–-
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Well on Iths idea. I do like the idea of holding a shield and a 2 handed weapon. For me it doesn't matter, when the game updates, I won't be using dual wield any way. Seeing as a I am a bard, I am going to lose dual wielding it seems.
But losing Titanic attack. Well, I did think of a few ideas, that I would like people to comment on all the ideas with some thought and just not saying no.
Size damage
%damage on size of enemy. When game updates, I was hoping for an idea of true size for all races. Titans being the biggest, Elves actually being the smallest. Not because they are short, but because dwarfs are thicker, and more brawd. So it could be like a 50% extra % damage kicking in. Nothing insane, like 1-15% random. But more painful for smaller and skinnier enemies.
Defence Break
Parry/shield block/wilderness spear/catch break. Another skill, rated on weight of item and titanic attack skill. Catch would be strength, bonus of giant strength, and race size. This would allow a titan to do like 25% damage every so often a parry. Or have it more rare, but completely break the defence and do normal damage. It could be something based on defence to, like a shield block would just knock the enemy over, do a slight amount of damage, as wear catch did a whole lot more.
Ithilidans idea on the Dr per level. But, it would only add up to 12dr… not liking that.
Not liking this idea. But having titanic attack being a seperate attack you can do like bash what ever, but do 1.5 damage or so. Or even double.
combat starter
Well, not my favorite, but when an apponent is at 75+ hp a titan can start combat with a very lethal attack. Doing a large amount of damage. It should be slow, but if hit, an actual great amount of damage. Pretty much would look like this.
Emtae Lifts his Stuagaard high into the air. 1 second delay, 1.5.
Emtae crushes you with a mighty blow, knocking you off your feet.
THAT REALLY DID HURT!!!
So it would be a combat starter or, it could also be a skill to use in battle, and it has some good lag to it. As a 1 second delay or so, it will be hard to actually start combat, but, it would be a Titan Attack.
Those are the main ideas I had on titans. But I would like to hear some good comments on it. Every race other than humans (i thinks being changed) has a skill or 2 or some other benefit. Titanic attack is something that people want to take away all together, but take it away, they titans are just large humans with a weakness and more hp.
To make balance, I was thinking about having true vulnerables. As in, instead of 25% it would be like 10% or 50% what ever. This could make some classes more justified. Like a Sith, I thinks siths would be weak against cold. Snake, cold etc. And a slight weakness to fire, seeing as snakes do try to use warmth.
Vampires, fire should fry the shit out of them.
Slayers, 15% to negative, strong against fire. I would immagine they wield it commonly. Slayer form could change things up. They could use some other weakness though, or else they would be unbalanced with that change.
Titans, 10% 10% on fire ice, Lighting 15% but 10% on negative too.
Dragons should be able to chose what they are strong and weak against. They should be strong against one form, and weak to another in thier opinion from start of the game. Seeing as they can breath elements too, it would affects the power of their breaths.
Minos should be strong against ice because of fur, a little weaker against fire like normal, and normal with Lightning.
The other Classes, are a toss up. This would balance the pking a bit though. May even make people rethink weapons and armors. And slow down how fast battles can go.
There are other things, but I will talk about them later. I do want people ideas on Titanic attack. In the end, syn will decide, but would help to actually have some positive and useful feedback.
Emtae
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~~@Mythology:~~
> every race has an advantage and disadvantage towards humans. the slayer vs vamp, etc, thing was a way to balance feuding races. this was also not supposed to overpower say, elf over sith. it was a building block to work from.
I can see the point, but then people will want x race balanced perfectly with y race, while still remaining balanced with humans. The problem that I see with this is that the only way to do that is to make each race identical to the other then balance it out to humans, and then, what really is the point?
I hold that if we just work out balancing in relation to humans, then just use a storyline to pit races against each other, it would be better.
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Well, some change in balance I think is a good idea. Have one race strong to one, but weak to another. Like I said, if every one is 50 50, then it kinda takes the danger of say, a slayer vs evil. A slayer is supposed to own evil, but why not have a problem with good spanking a slayer around then. I think unbalance in some areas is a good idea.
Emtae
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Obviously your not comprehending my point Emtae. The point was that if your 2 in 1 handing it does consistently more damage than the random holy wrath damage bonus.
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OK, missbalance. In a battle, someone just did 3500 damage to me in one turn, and it could have been more, I just died when I lost all my health in less that one round. All it took, a dispel and quaffing a chain lighting potion. Instant Kill. If someone can do that, Titans are in no way Broken. And I know people want to use the exploting vuln. WTF. 3500 damage in 3 seconds. My suggestion. Just make brewing chain lighting impossible. It takes no lag, and it can kill a titan in about 3 seconds. Yeah, that is fair.
Emtae
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~~@Emtae:~~
> OK, missbalance. In a battle, someone just did 3500 damage to me in one turn, and it could have been more, I just died when I lost all my health in less that one round. All it took, a dispel and quaffing a chain lighting potion. Instant Kill. If someone can do that, Titans are in no way Broken. And I know people want to use the exploting vuln. WTF. 3500 damage in 3 seconds. My suggestion. Just make brewing chain lighting impossible. It takes no lag, and it can kill a titan in about 3 seconds. Yeah, that is fair.
>
> Emtae
Oh, get OVER yourself. You… you cast spell deflection on your OWN MOUNT. Chain lightning hits everything in the room. You were just unlucky enough to have most, if not all, of the bolts bounce off your mount and hit you. So, if anyone is to blame for getting not one dose of chain lightning, but two, it is YOU. So don't come crying to us. It was solely your fault. Had you not put spell deflection on your mount, you'd likely would have survived the spell and would have likely beaten the crap out of your opponent.
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As far as Lich go…
Spirit rack is fine. It's not too weak. I use it fairly often myself and haven't noticed any problems.
The fire vuln coupled with the blunt vuln does seem like a bit much, and it does seem like I get owned by people half my level a bit too often. But hey who knows, maybe I just suck :P
I do agree with Bael though. Both fire and blunt are extremely common. HOWEVER. Let's look at their resists etc...
Immune: charm cold lightning kill
Resist: piercing slashing poison
Racial Affects: pass_door
Not too freakin shabby. Also, we SUPPOSEDLY get 250% normal mana regen. I'm not sure if this is currently working or not, as I don't have a non Lich of equal power to compare it to. It seems like it might go at about the same rate as my HP but I really am having a hard time telling.
Syn, could you take a look at that?
All things considered though, Lich aren't really having much trouble. Some would say they are overpowered by those immunities and things, but I think the two EASILY exploitable vulnerabilities makes it fair.
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I think Liches are fun as hell. Granted like I said before, better have some high hp armors on. A person using a lich in the correct maner, can do some serious damage. If any one noticed, liches aren't made for rushing in, swords flailing, hacking off heads at will. They use their firsts mainly, and notice that high amount of mana they posses. They can cast spells for an entire battle and shouldn't (they still can i suppose) run out of mana. The right person using a lich should be very lethal in battle, if they use what they got right. As far as vulns, every ones got them, just need to use your enemies too.
Emtae
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This is all fine and dandy, but it seems everyone is forgetting that the races/classes/stats/etc weren't pulled directly from the D&D Players Handbook, or taken from whatever book/tv/movie series you're so fond of. While Sentience has kept true to most of the more commonly used traits and idiosyncrasies, keep in mind that just because it doesn't fit the profile you approve of doesn't make it wrong.
With that said: Ith has a wonderful point, being that races are gauged around humans. While Myth said every race has a racial advantage to humans, it is my belief that humans should be able to exploit every weakness just as easily. My argument behind this is: In every story, book, movie, universe, what-have-you with multiple races involved, 97% of them express humans as having the ability to overcome the odds and become if not the greatest, then one of the best in nearly every category. It is understood that humans have the greatest potential of all races, and though our greatest disadvantage is that we have no advantage, our ability to expolit weaknesses and vulerabilties makes us a force to be reckoned with.
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People have been talking about a necessary way to defend against bard music. I have an idea. A spell called defness. No idea what class would get it. Here's how it would work though. It wouldn't last more than maybe one tick. You would not be able to hear the music to have it affect you. Also, here's the drawback. For the duration, aside from maybe tells,cts and immortal gossips/oocs, you would not see channels or says etc. Also you would not be able to see your opponent, or anyone else, cast spells. You would see the spells in action, just not see them "speaking the words of the spell" I know the idea could use polishing, but whaddya think?
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put it in the ideas forum? :P
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Ok, make this simple. Missbalance is a slight affect in the game. Tilting a little towards someones favor. We all use it in our advantage. Point is, it isn't JUST the characters race, and or classes. It is the person playing the character. If you suck and pk, arena, what ever, you shouldn't EXPECT to win.
It is all about who is controlling the character, and then classes, and help from other characters, to improve your character is what makes some other players so strong.
And one more thought, most people who went warlord, and are still whining that they can't win. Warlord is more towards taking on characters that are weaker than you. Pursue, the character will most likely be weaker, and will flee from you, and pursue will follow them in. So if you can't easily defeate a destroyer, take a hint. They will most likely win every time.
And people who are on the pk, cpk list, towards the top, and are complaning they can't kill someone, or they are towards the bottom of the races to pk? Rethink what you have been saying a bit.
Emtae
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I'm on the PK and CPK list, and I still have issues with the way PK is tilted in others favor. I've had problems with it from the beginning. But why am I on the PK/CPK list? Maybe it has something to do with the fact my character is five years old. But am I number 1 on the list, being the oldest? No. I'm not. Nor do I expect to be. People play this game a hell of a lot more than I do. But there have been many times where PK was tilted in the favor of one over the other. Always will be, because finding the perfect balance is near impossible. There's been problems like this for years, and for years the PK system has been altered. Over time it has gotten better, but there are still things to tweak that would make it more balanced.
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Well, instead of accussing one another of being cheap, and just bashing on others characters, how about adding suggestions. Like the titanic attack. Every one says, just get rid of it. And thats it. How about adding suggestions to others races instead of just saying, get rid of it. Minos, suggestion, charge should be fixed. They have a race that does shit for special skills. Same problem with Titans imo. I do a lot of damage, and thats it. I don't get any thing fun as a skill, that I can input myself. Same issue with Humans I think too. But getting off track. I made some suggestion about Titans earlier and didn't get one responce from it. People play and interact with their characters constantly. Immortals just fix what they hear, and think is messed up. Or at least that's what I would think.
So, on the thought of humans, Nopropter said Humans can over come any thing. Which in stories this is true. But in this game, humans usually get spanked. So my thought was to give humans natural leadership skill, and and a bigger boost for being grouped with other humans. They are always leaders in movies, and when grouped, they are always more encuraged by their leaders. This would also help a little bit in group forming. And if they are worlard, give them even a bigger boost. This could provide a better solution for humans. Just a thought.
Emtae
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Hi guys.
Didnht really notice the preference to fire vuln, as I was making the races.
:(
It really is awfully prevalent in the game as a weapon type.
I will try to even out the useless abilities or vulns (like resistance to drowning - not really used).
I'll have to do something about the "fire" thing. I haven't come up with what to do about that. I don't want to spontaneously change any races with no word of warning so I'll post it here for some evaluation before I do.
Someone mentioned titans… yes, they are getting toned down a little bit in terms of damage. I haven't decided how, though.
I think Ith is right about balancing races against humans, as long as humans have no special abilities/vulns. I could design a point system to work on it, but it would have to be a little complex because not all abilities are created equal.
Thanks nop for the reminder that we are trtying to be distinct from other RP games. I know our lack of storyline so far makes it a little hard. However, we are working on it, a lot of the info for the races is indeed pulled from common mythology, but a lot of it is our own (the spirituality theme for example). This unifying theme is in my opinion gives the MUD the prospect of being something different and better than every other standard ROM based MUD.
What I am looking at in the future is to make alignment a little more fluid, so it is more interesting. But that's a bit off topic.
I will address the fire-vuln concern in the up coming days.
For now i am off too class.
8)
Edit->by the way, most people are unaware of this, but me and Pol have been working on a comprehensive object database so we can do a sort of audit of what eq is out there in the game. Before everyone panicks, we are not going to change anything in the game unless it is way extremely overpowered, but see which levels of equipment and what special abilities on EQ are missing and try to work them into the game somehow.
This is obviously a long process as it has the possibility to affect all-ares of game life. So it might take a little while. But hopefully it'll help with races which have vulns which can't be exploited due to lack of a good weapon, for example.
S.
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Well I was wondering what kind of ideas you had for the fire changing. I still like the % changes idea for fire, instead of making them immune all together. For ex, Minos could be 10% instead of 25%. And other races less or more dramatic for what they shift into.
On another note. I know the imms are going to change how hand to hand damage works. I just wanted to comment on that first. I would like to see hand to hand damage influenced with things like brass knuckles etc. Only because if you bump it up, I can assure you, any Slayer will rape someone in 2 turns or less. Slayers can easily do about 2000 damage a turn if you don't avoid it. So, making the knuckles up the damage worn, will also take away from the lich just holding a shield and tuba in hand. It will at least change how the use weapons etc. Just a helpful thought.
Emtae
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Actually, I think using up all of your hands should stop you from using hand to hand, so your claim that Lichs would benefit from just using a shield and a tuba is bogus.
