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This sounds more like a problem with lack of good axes, rather than the Berserker needing even more stuff for it. Axes should have higher base damage than swords anyway.. so with the 20% and a decently powerful axe, I think it should be good enough.. and remember that Dwarves/Berserkers already have a ton of benefits, as much as almost any other race, and __no__ real disadvantages or vulnerabilities. I think they're perfectly fine.. just make some better 120 remort axes.
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Well I am all for changes in the game for making titans more fair, but damn… taking away titanic attack too, why not make it so they don't get 4th attack when destroyer, that will make it more fair since they are getting behead, titans aren't impossible, they can be killed rather easy as it is, people just aren't smart about it. There is only one reason people can't take on Arkain, arkains OS equipment makes him over powered, along with 4th attack and behead not being bothered by circle lag it is a little bit tough to take him on. So because of his OS armor and the fact that all his classes are pking classes, every one thinks that titans are over powered.
Back to the point, taking away the fourth attack gained as a destroyer will make it a little more fair seeing as we are losing a lot more as it is, lower dex ect. Another thought though on titans, to make them fair and a little more towards big and bulky, take away circle skill and make bash in some way more affective, like more damage, maybe less lag on it, or the person hit would be knocked over longer, it would be a little odd seeing a titan circle around an elf... But the most important thing, make the 4th attack something a titan can't gain, and the behead a manual skill.
And on a final note, the 2handed weapon skill should be colossus, that is the one thing that i KNOW needs to be changed with titans.
Balder
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Vampires are supposed to be super strong, super fast, can fly (depending on which version you're talking about), have psi abilities, and can see in the dark (plus more that I can't think of right now). :) I'd comment on the other races, but I don't know much about those so it wouldn't be a fair representation of those races. 8)
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Well, if you want to get into what races are like, before people read the books on lord of the rings, elfs were short little creaters that helped santa make toys, now they are big tall fast creatures, I think we need to let some things on vampires just slide :p
But on a more serious note, Vampires aren't under or over powered, they seem to be fine where they are. Every one wants to add this and make things more or less powerful to favor thier races, I you are going to make a suggestion, have it a little bit within reason, i say this because the last comment i heard about vamps getting an extra attack, though i know it wont happen was a little over board with some of the requests people are making. I have a vamp alt, they are fine, other than the sun damage, they really don't need any things added on to there abilities, it is a pain as it is to check for vamps in some cpk areas. If any class in the game has it bad and needs to be upped at all it is going to be humans and slayers, and also a little work on liches though they are a little useful. Only reason people don't complane about slayers ever is because there are very few who keep slayers because they pretty much suck, so no one spends time on them long enough to complane.
And aslo this may not make the best sense, i am tired, so if i messed up on something, sorry
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I didn't write anything about adding any of the things that I wrote. I just know a bit about them and was listing things about vampires to help generate ideas for things to be added. It was the big guy who suggested vampires growing a tail for an extra attack. It'd be cool if all the remort races got an extra attack though. Btw, don't forget about the elves who make shoes and the Keebler elves.
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I like the idea of spell effects on arrows to. but what i would suggest is a racial ability for your seraphim, like a beefed infuse.
Say for first class you could enchant your arrows, or maybe bow itself for simplicity with your standard elemental damages like fire, ice, electrical etc. and as the seraphim goes up in level have them able to add more and varying effects to the shots. You would have to be careful as to what effects where allowed to be put onto arrows though.
On the same note i really would have the skill/spell applied to the bow itself for 2 reasons A) its in the seraph's hands, it relfects to me at least the shooter channeling mana driectly into the bow and thus the amunition, and B) still means you can infuse your arrows as a ranger. although weather you could allow infused bow + Infused arrow is something to consider since it could get rather OP. I imagine what effects are available would run somewhat like the bard's music
As for drow, there the masters of ambush. I think that fireing a crossbow from sneak/dark place they should get a backstab like damage bonus to the crossbow, also i think the extra backstab damage would be nice, also a better chance of blackjack. Also if where talkin specter, we should always consider the soul drain thingy. Maybe a vampiric touch for mana?
And i still think Dragons should get a swoop/bash thing. :)
Sar
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I like that idea for drows :) Our sneakiness should be useful against more than mobs - since almost all players have things like detect hidden. Also the lag on firing crossbow is kinda out of hand.. I barely use it because the damage done really isn't worth the time it takes to fire. I can beat 'em to death faster n easier.
lol my hubby (mostly asleep - computer is in bedroom) asks me what are you doing? writting about updated races/classes and so on. You should have fire breathing dragons. We already have that. You should have poop flinging trolls! We don't have trolls. Poop flinging trolls! …and goblins... now he's snoring again hehe...
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Just have a look at the 3 classes that get the most discussion titan, drow and vampire, the big 3 PK races and the only one being toned down is TITAN, drow wingers want more of everything like the fuck they are not good races already, Vampire again is good as it is, especially if other changes are made to PvP, and titan sure needs to be toned down, but so dose drow 2 if your looking for some semblance of balance and i think most of the vampre stuff is more RP than PVP type skills,
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and remember that Dwarves/Berserkers already have a ton of benefits,
Really they do? a beserk thats usless, racial regen that dont give 1/100th of the dam you receive per round, and infravision, WOO HOO i can see red eyes, if you take drow and vampire as benchmarks that all the other races should be able to obtain then dwarf is way off the mark.
Also as a side note, where are the great dwarf pkers or better yet, why are there none, Xtrasp out of Redraven you think would be a dwarven powerhouse, but is not, i guess dwarves do suck HUH.
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First, I don't know why people keep calling races classes.
Now, I agree that Drows and Vampires don't really need much else, but then here we're trying to suggest things for the __remort__ races to differentiate them from the mort races. That's another thing - stop referring to the mort races (whether you mean the mort or the remort races); this thread is on the additions to remort races only.
Why is berserk useless? Last I checked, it's not __that__ bad; at level 120, you get a lot of additional hp, a decent amount of hit-and-damage roll, and a relatively small ac penalty. Unfortunately, it has a pretty short duration, but it could last for a few fights, and with that much of a bonus I would definitely use it all the time. I wish I could use something like that. And as for the benefits, I'm mostly talking about resistances, lack of any vulnerabilities, and the decent stats. Drow, Vamp, and Titan all at least have vulns others exploit, which is one of the reasons so much damage can be dealt to them, while Dwarf is resistant to the vast majority of elemental damage and has no (workable) vulnerabilities. Also, we're not __just__ talking about pk here– general playability is also of great influence.
If it's really __that__ bad, then perhaps up the axe damage to 30%.. but that might be getting a bit high. As I said, we need some high-physical-damage 120 remort axes. Axes should be more powerful than swords, but not quite as versatile (ie having different elements, abilities, and such).
Also, no, don't give all remort races an additional attack. We have enough as is.
On a sidenote, people, this is a forum. Please take time to sort out your thoughts and make your messages coherent, and there's no need to curse here; in-game it's more understandable to speak quickly and impulsively. It's rather annoying to have to decipher babble with only a little bit of grammar on a forum.
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Actually Tommi, over all for pk, I would take Xtrasp over Redraven.
Things that make Xtrasp not have the numbers.
1) No Shape. Reds #'s come mostly from sneaking up on people. IE catching them in pk. And his low loss #'s come from not being found in pk, again a product of shape.
2) Xtrasp was started after and just got big after the change of pk and it being "screwed up". Hence doesnt actively seek it.
But in a head to head battle, I would rather fight u with Xtrasp at the moment.
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Forum input is also skewed by who is bothering to participate. Most of the high level or OS chars are limited races, and I don't think we've made a point of making sure lower level characters/newbies feel like they should contribute - which would provide a wider range of races represented in the discussion. So far most of the opinions I see here are from people that have played a particular race, or maybe 2 or 3, for a long time so they're very well aquainted with those ones, might be helpful to get some fresh insight from first impressions.
No suggestions how to go about it though, just bringing it to attention.
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True Stareve, but most have played 2 or 3 for a long while and are familiar with those, plus against the others and hence are familiiar.
Just myself for example, 2 120 remorts, an almost (118) 120 mort and a mid 3rd class mort. All different races, all with considerable play time, even taking out any idle time. I have also"messed around with" several other races.
Not saying new and fresh input not a good idea, but saying the input of the O/S is not necesarrily skewed by lack of playing a variety.
On subject of getting more people to post here.
Maybe an auto note or News to all new players connected giving addy and possibly listing a couple of hot topics of discussion. Something in MOTD (more than just addy posted) encouraging all to come here.
That would be about it other than twisting a few arms.
Just my 2 silver pieces worth.
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I just remembered about this thread, for about the third time, and finally stopped procrastinating enough to actually show up again.
I am not sure I am wild about the spell infusing arrow idea. For me it would take some thought on it to process and see how it would play out.
One thought I had on the racial light was to make a skill, which would use mana, to possibly cause blind in the room and adjacent room. Higher chance in room. up to 20%, halved in adjacent, up to 10%. Also, a timer on the skill, maybe once every 10-15 seconds, to prevent being overly abused, and expand radius of lighted rooms for a brief time as well as a possibility of removing momentary darkness cast. Again, a low chance with same timer placed on the above thought, maybe 10-20%.
And, make their hand to hand a holy damage. Not that big of deal, since hand to hand really doesn't do much compared to weapons, but would help reflect the ascent. And, just off the top of my head, Specters would gain negative hand to hand.
Also, could you fix it so that an Illusionst is Illusionist?
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> First, I don't know why people keep calling races classes.
This might be baecause i have just come home from working 18 hours straight and not reading over what i am writing about.
> - stop referring to the mort races (whether you mean the mort or the remort races); this thread is on the additions to remort races only.
I thought it was taken for granted that this was about remort races, and that in this instance mort and remort names were interchangable
> Why is berserk useless?a relatively small ac penalty.
Small my ass, 250 odd -ac is not a small loss at all, 1/2 that would be a small loss.
> I'm mostly talking about resistances
You might be, but I'm not, i dont see anyone complaining bout theier resist and vulns do you, the issues come in the way of remort racial abilities, berserk vrs drows swerve and vamps shape, what are you going to choose, the one that penalizes you to use it,
> while Dwarf is resistant to the vast majority of elemental damage and has no (workable) vulnerabilities.
Really, dwarf is resistant to NOTHING and vulnrable to drowing, i think the issue there is to make the vuln workable, and i have saidd as such elsewhere in these forums.
As i have said, a beserker should be able to get the same number of attacks with a 2 handed axe as if dual wielding, THAT IS NOT AN EXTRA ATTACK, but some insentive to use your racial skills over dual wielding, you know some of these skill enhancements and additions should be about making it easier to choose the things your race does and uses without being penalized for it.
If dual wielding works out to be in your best interest beacuse you get better dammage, more attacks per round, a better parry with sword and dagger style and the use of holy sword then are you going to even bother with trying to roleplay a dwarf and run about with an axe.
And if that is the case then i think that the imms should not waste thier time and effort in inplementing code that no one of that race is going to use.
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Not many touched on the Hell Baron aspect, and since I am a Hell Baron, I will. 20% less damage from all attacks except fire does seem kind of overbearing. If you ever think of a minotaur (or a beefed up Hell Baron version), you never think of them fighting defensive, but more aggressive. Also, you are talking about a bull standing on it's hind legs. Now, beef it up even more. Give it human hands. Put a large, 2 handed axe in those hands. Think it's gonna swing with one or two arms? One. It's too small of a weapon to swing with two arms.
I feel that Hell Barons should use the 2 handed weapon in 1 hand ability. They're powerhouses, and much like the titans, more offensive and based on strength, not defensive. Thick coats of fur compared to cold, that issue has been settled for years. The only things Minotaurs have been lacking is anything dealing with their horns (charge being based solely off bash and hitting form members, instead of it's own deal).
Dragons, however, are creatures who use their claws more. While also a very large creature, dragons generally do not use human weapons unless they're polymorphed into a humanoid shape. Since dragons in this game don't do that, then why would they use humanoid weapons? I think they should get a slashing attack with their claws that deals some decent damage. This would give dragon monks the ability to not need weapons and still compete at a 120 remort level.
-Mythology
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Keeping this simple. i agree with myth plenty, Minos are the evel version of a titan from where i see it. So i agree with the 2handed weapon dual weild or shield and weapon style. And dragons, are more of a claw and burn your enemy into a crisp deal, or freeze etc.
Balder
And also, need some work on the poor slayers…..
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I think available class choices need to be brought into this conversation.
First off, just as a general statement, a lot of races get special abilites just for said race. Dracs get breath, Sith get Toxins, Vamps shape, etc.
Elves and in a leser sense, drow, don't get a lot to themselves.
On that note, I agree completely with Myth's idea to bring mino horns into the picture, they need it. Dwarves could also use more things to do with the race. I'll expand more on that in a moment.
On a side note, for titans… the speed they have is out there yes, and it looks to be getting changed. The two handed weapon thing is being taken to the remort form, which is great. they deal big damage, but aren't so fast. But perhaps instead of taking away the titanic attack, just change what it does. Take the atatck and turn it into a skill that does more damage, but make them lose the round. Much like circle, bash, archery, etc. It supports the heightened damage thing they have.
On that note. I think instead of all this enchaning arrows/bolts and such to help elves. Why does a titan/drac/dwarf/mino as well as every other class, have the chance to use archery? I use the bigger races as examples because it's funny :P anyhow. My example being, you don't see an elf going around with the breath skill, or shape shifting.
Archery has been toned down, it's surely not gamebreaking like it was. If it needs toned down more, understandable. But my idea was to make bow an elf only skill, as well give them archery, and they can keep their 5% accuacy bonus. Give drow the crossbow and archery, and let them keep their defences, but don't give them a bonus since they have the speed swerve. It still keeps both elven races fast and defensive, and they get some ranged.
Take bow/crossbow/archery from druid and ranger, but leave the accuracy bonus on ranger for ranged weapons. infuse from ranger can be used on arrows (perfect class for drow/elves) but at the same time infuse can work on weapons too.
if need be, perhaps give humans both bow and crossbow, but no archery (so no shooting in battle, only ranged) and no accuracy bonus. That keeps the human able to still master all weapons... but still gives drow and elves something of their own. You lose some of your attacks while using ranged weapons as well, so elves and drow won't be putting out large amounts of damage.
Actually with all of that said, leaving bow and crossbow as is, and taking archery away from everyone except elves and drow might actually be better in the overall. Depends how it wants to be done..
if need be,elves could be given another vuln other than iron. I was thinking maybe make a counter of holy which drow are weak to, call it darkness.. and only make elves weak to it, since they're the basic opposite of a drow.
The magic arrow idea was okay for elf remorts.. but really, plan your classes and go ranger for god sakes. And the reliability of infuse is more strategic.. I can only infuse an arrow with someone's vuln if i know I'm going to be fighting them.
I'd rather see other races given some race specific skills to help them out, and give the ranged weapons to the elves and drow. After the update comes out, the ranged weapons needing to be tweaked could be an issue. But as I see it now, the shooting times are down on them in general, which balances things, most people will use circle anyhow.
It just makes more sense really. It's not different than the titan concept.. a titan who's faster than a drow.. well, a 'insert big race without hands and perfect accuracy' killing me with a bolt or arrow when I'm am elf, doesn't make any sense..
But in general and apart from that, I agree that some of the other races need some racial things too so that the archery change would balance.
And as for elves getting another vuln, if need be, for the love of please give dwarves a vuln other than drowning :P
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There is a lot of merit in what elzamine has to say here, i for one would have no issue in keeping archery a elf/drow skill as it better suits them, for christs sake im a dwarf and shouldnt realy know the ass end of a bow.
I think that the principles elza has outlined here for her chosen race, if applied to all the races should give us all things that aree much more suited to our own races.
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I also agree - on that elves/drows should be the emphasis of bows and crossbows, and don't have much that is just theirs, and it is pretty funny to think of races that are supposed to be huge and slow with a bow. Think Mike Tyson in ballet slippers…. :lol:
On being able to infuse arrows/bolts to take advantage of an opponent's weakness by going ranger though I don't know.. I don't really like the idea that all new players created of any race are going to go one class because it'll give them a big boost over any player of the same race who goes a different class. It'll end up being unbalanced, like everyone going rogue. Seems to me it would encourage more diversity to have a skill linked to bow/crossbow or archery - if you get one, you get the other to enhance arrows/bolts. Or even better, a quest item to enhance them.. like a quiver you can select which affect to use ie put arrow quiver water. That would limit the ability to people who have worked for it... or if not a quest item, at least a higher level one, at least 3rd class. That's my 2 cents worth.
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I agree with Elza about Elves/Drows only getting bow/crossbow, and archery. Also Humans should get bow/crossbow, but no skill of archery.
I really cant imagine a Titan having the intelligence to learn how to use a bow or a crossbow.
I like the idea about infusing arrows. I dont feel it will end up unbalanced because i hear the damage is being tweaked way down.. so in the end it would be more like casting fireball or lightning bolt, except there will be more ways to dodge it.
