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I like the idea of spell effects on arrows to. but what i would suggest is a racial ability for your seraphim, like a beefed infuse.
Say for first class you could enchant your arrows, or maybe bow itself for simplicity with your standard elemental damages like fire, ice, electrical etc. and as the seraphim goes up in level have them able to add more and varying effects to the shots. You would have to be careful as to what effects where allowed to be put onto arrows though.
On the same note i really would have the skill/spell applied to the bow itself for 2 reasons A) its in the seraph's hands, it relfects to me at least the shooter channeling mana driectly into the bow and thus the amunition, and B) still means you can infuse your arrows as a ranger. although weather you could allow infused bow + Infused arrow is something to consider since it could get rather OP. I imagine what effects are available would run somewhat like the bard's music
As for drow, there the masters of ambush. I think that fireing a crossbow from sneak/dark place they should get a backstab like damage bonus to the crossbow, also i think the extra backstab damage would be nice, also a better chance of blackjack. Also if where talkin specter, we should always consider the soul drain thingy. Maybe a vampiric touch for mana?
And i still think Dragons should get a swoop/bash thing. :)
Sar
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I like that idea for drows :) Our sneakiness should be useful against more than mobs - since almost all players have things like detect hidden. Also the lag on firing crossbow is kinda out of hand.. I barely use it because the damage done really isn't worth the time it takes to fire. I can beat 'em to death faster n easier.
lol my hubby (mostly asleep - computer is in bedroom) asks me what are you doing? writting about updated races/classes and so on. You should have fire breathing dragons. We already have that. You should have poop flinging trolls! We don't have trolls. Poop flinging trolls! …and goblins... now he's snoring again hehe...
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Just have a look at the 3 classes that get the most discussion titan, drow and vampire, the big 3 PK races and the only one being toned down is TITAN, drow wingers want more of everything like the fuck they are not good races already, Vampire again is good as it is, especially if other changes are made to PvP, and titan sure needs to be toned down, but so dose drow 2 if your looking for some semblance of balance and i think most of the vampre stuff is more RP than PVP type skills,
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and remember that Dwarves/Berserkers already have a ton of benefits,
Really they do? a beserk thats usless, racial regen that dont give 1/100th of the dam you receive per round, and infravision, WOO HOO i can see red eyes, if you take drow and vampire as benchmarks that all the other races should be able to obtain then dwarf is way off the mark.
Also as a side note, where are the great dwarf pkers or better yet, why are there none, Xtrasp out of Redraven you think would be a dwarven powerhouse, but is not, i guess dwarves do suck HUH.
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First, I don't know why people keep calling races classes.
Now, I agree that Drows and Vampires don't really need much else, but then here we're trying to suggest things for the __remort__ races to differentiate them from the mort races. That's another thing - stop referring to the mort races (whether you mean the mort or the remort races); this thread is on the additions to remort races only.
Why is berserk useless? Last I checked, it's not __that__ bad; at level 120, you get a lot of additional hp, a decent amount of hit-and-damage roll, and a relatively small ac penalty. Unfortunately, it has a pretty short duration, but it could last for a few fights, and with that much of a bonus I would definitely use it all the time. I wish I could use something like that. And as for the benefits, I'm mostly talking about resistances, lack of any vulnerabilities, and the decent stats. Drow, Vamp, and Titan all at least have vulns others exploit, which is one of the reasons so much damage can be dealt to them, while Dwarf is resistant to the vast majority of elemental damage and has no (workable) vulnerabilities. Also, we're not __just__ talking about pk here– general playability is also of great influence.
If it's really __that__ bad, then perhaps up the axe damage to 30%.. but that might be getting a bit high. As I said, we need some high-physical-damage 120 remort axes. Axes should be more powerful than swords, but not quite as versatile (ie having different elements, abilities, and such).
Also, no, don't give all remort races an additional attack. We have enough as is.
On a sidenote, people, this is a forum. Please take time to sort out your thoughts and make your messages coherent, and there's no need to curse here; in-game it's more understandable to speak quickly and impulsively. It's rather annoying to have to decipher babble with only a little bit of grammar on a forum.
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Actually Tommi, over all for pk, I would take Xtrasp over Redraven.
Things that make Xtrasp not have the numbers.
1) No Shape. Reds #'s come mostly from sneaking up on people. IE catching them in pk. And his low loss #'s come from not being found in pk, again a product of shape.
2) Xtrasp was started after and just got big after the change of pk and it being "screwed up". Hence doesnt actively seek it.
But in a head to head battle, I would rather fight u with Xtrasp at the moment.
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Forum input is also skewed by who is bothering to participate. Most of the high level or OS chars are limited races, and I don't think we've made a point of making sure lower level characters/newbies feel like they should contribute - which would provide a wider range of races represented in the discussion. So far most of the opinions I see here are from people that have played a particular race, or maybe 2 or 3, for a long time so they're very well aquainted with those ones, might be helpful to get some fresh insight from first impressions.
No suggestions how to go about it though, just bringing it to attention.
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True Stareve, but most have played 2 or 3 for a long while and are familiar with those, plus against the others and hence are familiiar.
Just myself for example, 2 120 remorts, an almost (118) 120 mort and a mid 3rd class mort. All different races, all with considerable play time, even taking out any idle time. I have also"messed around with" several other races.
Not saying new and fresh input not a good idea, but saying the input of the O/S is not necesarrily skewed by lack of playing a variety.
On subject of getting more people to post here.
Maybe an auto note or News to all new players connected giving addy and possibly listing a couple of hot topics of discussion. Something in MOTD (more than just addy posted) encouraging all to come here.
That would be about it other than twisting a few arms.
Just my 2 silver pieces worth.
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I just remembered about this thread, for about the third time, and finally stopped procrastinating enough to actually show up again.
I am not sure I am wild about the spell infusing arrow idea. For me it would take some thought on it to process and see how it would play out.
One thought I had on the racial light was to make a skill, which would use mana, to possibly cause blind in the room and adjacent room. Higher chance in room. up to 20%, halved in adjacent, up to 10%. Also, a timer on the skill, maybe once every 10-15 seconds, to prevent being overly abused, and expand radius of lighted rooms for a brief time as well as a possibility of removing momentary darkness cast. Again, a low chance with same timer placed on the above thought, maybe 10-20%.
And, make their hand to hand a holy damage. Not that big of deal, since hand to hand really doesn't do much compared to weapons, but would help reflect the ascent. And, just off the top of my head, Specters would gain negative hand to hand.
Also, could you fix it so that an Illusionst is Illusionist?
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> First, I don't know why people keep calling races classes.
This might be baecause i have just come home from working 18 hours straight and not reading over what i am writing about.
> - stop referring to the mort races (whether you mean the mort or the remort races); this thread is on the additions to remort races only.
I thought it was taken for granted that this was about remort races, and that in this instance mort and remort names were interchangable
> Why is berserk useless?a relatively small ac penalty.
Small my ass, 250 odd -ac is not a small loss at all, 1/2 that would be a small loss.
> I'm mostly talking about resistances
You might be, but I'm not, i dont see anyone complaining bout theier resist and vulns do you, the issues come in the way of remort racial abilities, berserk vrs drows swerve and vamps shape, what are you going to choose, the one that penalizes you to use it,
> while Dwarf is resistant to the vast majority of elemental damage and has no (workable) vulnerabilities.
Really, dwarf is resistant to NOTHING and vulnrable to drowing, i think the issue there is to make the vuln workable, and i have saidd as such elsewhere in these forums.
As i have said, a beserker should be able to get the same number of attacks with a 2 handed axe as if dual wielding, THAT IS NOT AN EXTRA ATTACK, but some insentive to use your racial skills over dual wielding, you know some of these skill enhancements and additions should be about making it easier to choose the things your race does and uses without being penalized for it.
If dual wielding works out to be in your best interest beacuse you get better dammage, more attacks per round, a better parry with sword and dagger style and the use of holy sword then are you going to even bother with trying to roleplay a dwarf and run about with an axe.
And if that is the case then i think that the imms should not waste thier time and effort in inplementing code that no one of that race is going to use.
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Not many touched on the Hell Baron aspect, and since I am a Hell Baron, I will. 20% less damage from all attacks except fire does seem kind of overbearing. If you ever think of a minotaur (or a beefed up Hell Baron version), you never think of them fighting defensive, but more aggressive. Also, you are talking about a bull standing on it's hind legs. Now, beef it up even more. Give it human hands. Put a large, 2 handed axe in those hands. Think it's gonna swing with one or two arms? One. It's too small of a weapon to swing with two arms.
I feel that Hell Barons should use the 2 handed weapon in 1 hand ability. They're powerhouses, and much like the titans, more offensive and based on strength, not defensive. Thick coats of fur compared to cold, that issue has been settled for years. The only things Minotaurs have been lacking is anything dealing with their horns (charge being based solely off bash and hitting form members, instead of it's own deal).
Dragons, however, are creatures who use their claws more. While also a very large creature, dragons generally do not use human weapons unless they're polymorphed into a humanoid shape. Since dragons in this game don't do that, then why would they use humanoid weapons? I think they should get a slashing attack with their claws that deals some decent damage. This would give dragon monks the ability to not need weapons and still compete at a 120 remort level.
-Mythology
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Keeping this simple. i agree with myth plenty, Minos are the evel version of a titan from where i see it. So i agree with the 2handed weapon dual weild or shield and weapon style. And dragons, are more of a claw and burn your enemy into a crisp deal, or freeze etc.
Balder
And also, need some work on the poor slayers…..
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I think available class choices need to be brought into this conversation.
First off, just as a general statement, a lot of races get special abilites just for said race. Dracs get breath, Sith get Toxins, Vamps shape, etc.
Elves and in a leser sense, drow, don't get a lot to themselves.
On that note, I agree completely with Myth's idea to bring mino horns into the picture, they need it. Dwarves could also use more things to do with the race. I'll expand more on that in a moment.
On a side note, for titans… the speed they have is out there yes, and it looks to be getting changed. The two handed weapon thing is being taken to the remort form, which is great. they deal big damage, but aren't so fast. But perhaps instead of taking away the titanic attack, just change what it does. Take the atatck and turn it into a skill that does more damage, but make them lose the round. Much like circle, bash, archery, etc. It supports the heightened damage thing they have.
On that note. I think instead of all this enchaning arrows/bolts and such to help elves. Why does a titan/drac/dwarf/mino as well as every other class, have the chance to use archery? I use the bigger races as examples because it's funny :P anyhow. My example being, you don't see an elf going around with the breath skill, or shape shifting.
Archery has been toned down, it's surely not gamebreaking like it was. If it needs toned down more, understandable. But my idea was to make bow an elf only skill, as well give them archery, and they can keep their 5% accuacy bonus. Give drow the crossbow and archery, and let them keep their defences, but don't give them a bonus since they have the speed swerve. It still keeps both elven races fast and defensive, and they get some ranged.
Take bow/crossbow/archery from druid and ranger, but leave the accuracy bonus on ranger for ranged weapons. infuse from ranger can be used on arrows (perfect class for drow/elves) but at the same time infuse can work on weapons too.
if need be, perhaps give humans both bow and crossbow, but no archery (so no shooting in battle, only ranged) and no accuracy bonus. That keeps the human able to still master all weapons... but still gives drow and elves something of their own. You lose some of your attacks while using ranged weapons as well, so elves and drow won't be putting out large amounts of damage.
Actually with all of that said, leaving bow and crossbow as is, and taking archery away from everyone except elves and drow might actually be better in the overall. Depends how it wants to be done..
if need be,elves could be given another vuln other than iron. I was thinking maybe make a counter of holy which drow are weak to, call it darkness.. and only make elves weak to it, since they're the basic opposite of a drow.
The magic arrow idea was okay for elf remorts.. but really, plan your classes and go ranger for god sakes. And the reliability of infuse is more strategic.. I can only infuse an arrow with someone's vuln if i know I'm going to be fighting them.
I'd rather see other races given some race specific skills to help them out, and give the ranged weapons to the elves and drow. After the update comes out, the ranged weapons needing to be tweaked could be an issue. But as I see it now, the shooting times are down on them in general, which balances things, most people will use circle anyhow.
It just makes more sense really. It's not different than the titan concept.. a titan who's faster than a drow.. well, a 'insert big race without hands and perfect accuracy' killing me with a bolt or arrow when I'm am elf, doesn't make any sense..
But in general and apart from that, I agree that some of the other races need some racial things too so that the archery change would balance.
And as for elves getting another vuln, if need be, for the love of please give dwarves a vuln other than drowning :P
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There is a lot of merit in what elzamine has to say here, i for one would have no issue in keeping archery a elf/drow skill as it better suits them, for christs sake im a dwarf and shouldnt realy know the ass end of a bow.
I think that the principles elza has outlined here for her chosen race, if applied to all the races should give us all things that aree much more suited to our own races.
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I also agree - on that elves/drows should be the emphasis of bows and crossbows, and don't have much that is just theirs, and it is pretty funny to think of races that are supposed to be huge and slow with a bow. Think Mike Tyson in ballet slippers…. :lol:
On being able to infuse arrows/bolts to take advantage of an opponent's weakness by going ranger though I don't know.. I don't really like the idea that all new players created of any race are going to go one class because it'll give them a big boost over any player of the same race who goes a different class. It'll end up being unbalanced, like everyone going rogue. Seems to me it would encourage more diversity to have a skill linked to bow/crossbow or archery - if you get one, you get the other to enhance arrows/bolts. Or even better, a quest item to enhance them.. like a quiver you can select which affect to use ie put arrow quiver water. That would limit the ability to people who have worked for it... or if not a quest item, at least a higher level one, at least 3rd class. That's my 2 cents worth.
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I agree with Elza about Elves/Drows only getting bow/crossbow, and archery. Also Humans should get bow/crossbow, but no skill of archery.
I really cant imagine a Titan having the intelligence to learn how to use a bow or a crossbow.
I like the idea about infusing arrows. I dont feel it will end up unbalanced because i hear the damage is being tweaked way down.. so in the end it would be more like casting fireball or lightning bolt, except there will be more ways to dodge it.
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Well, seeing as every one wants to make it so elves rock using arrows, and take it away from titans as every thing else they have, lets think of why titans need arrows.
Malandors room- not like many remort, if any can enter there without getting the SHIT kicked out of them without killing the students first. Now if the titan doesn't have, after burn, or any other spell that i would know of to get the students first, the titan can use an arrow, if they have gained the ability from druid, which I have. So that is the only way that i would have an idea on to get malandor.
Example 2 would be the pkers/cpkers that like to think they are smart by sitting on the portal and trapping newbs, and any other person they don't like, or just want to annoy. Once again, the only method of getting them out of the portal is to shoot the hell out of them so they either come after you on pk, unless they were on another screen, and the set they has arrived- kill play sound DING
And yes, people do have those triggers, because if I know how to do it, I know the remorts who have played many years more than me have it. Any way, if they have that trigger on, they get shoot to death for being lame and sitting there. Now if you don't have after burn, which wont do too much good unless they aren't on the same screen, you are pretty much screwed over. You can't lure them out because the trigger will kill you so fast, you are never going to make it into the portal, so you will have to zap yourself with a fire ball, or remove invis and go into pyrmid to let yourself get killed.
Last but not least, people are wanting to take away skills that have been worked on for many hours, I for one mastered both archery and bow, and spent thousands on, and though many people think it will be a trigger like always, I was actually, there shooting away while watching movies.
There are MANY more reason why people shouldn't just take away the ability, and because people will still want to change it, make a -5% bonus on them, just as elfs get a +5 bonus, that will make it fair. And can people please pick topics that don't involve in some way changing titans so they are weaker, I would like to see something more slayers, liches, and minoraurs. Every other person makes a comment on titans, if they are so great, why are there only 3 big titans? (Arkain, Alya, Balder)
Balder
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I was killing malandor before I even hit 120 pre-remort, pre-maxed out. If people can't kill him, then there is something wrong with the player, not the character. And, this was killing off all the students first, without using songs or scrolls. You need another arguement.
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Malandor has been around longer than arrows, bolts and archery. By no means are ranged weapons needed to kill him. ranged weapons have only made things considerately easier. That will lessen with the update, with arrows/bolts doing less, the kill/flee would be faster, or just tanking.
From what I see, anyone who says they require these ranged weapons, really needs to learn to play this game. Some are too used to the unbalanced damage on them. I can't wait until they're updated and fixed. until the fix, they're just an unfair advantage being abused. If you NEED them to kill mobs, then you frankly lack at the basis of the game. And since that's coming from me, who's vary partial to arrows.
As for the people sitting at the portals. This is nothing new. There are ways to get around it, and if you can't figure it out, then that's your problem. Ranged weapons aren't that old, people played the game before them. Suck it up Balder.
As I said, elves would have the archery which is a good skill yes. Other races have good skills too, only available to them. Those who don't, should be given such. I'm not arguing that fact in the least.
On the other hand, if removing the ranged from other races (other than elf/drow/human) is that much of a problem.. then archery should be taken away from everyone except elves (possibly drow, but they do have the extra defense) And something better than a 5% accuracy bonus should be given. Because frankly from what I see, the bonus doesn't do a whole lot. It's been tested between me and a dracon (on the test port) and the extra accuracy really doesn't make a major difference.
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From what I see, you aren't reading all of what I have said and you are trying to make me look like an ass. I never said there aren't ways around getting back to plith, like i said kill yourself in the pyrmid, but you say there is another way around the portal in your last statement, now if there is another way by all means tell, because if not, then you should stop trying to snap at me about it. And hurray for arrows being toned down, they are cheap, and i have said it, but it doesn't mean they are worthless. I don't feel like getting cpk or risking it, but looking for a way to get out of the abyss if there is such a way. If someone wants to sit on the portal, I don't want to make them happy be dieing one way or another without taking a stand, i am going to shoot the ever living piss out of them, and I would expect the same to happen to me.
Balder
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Risk of CPK is the Point Balder. If there wasnt a risk then there wouldnt be a need to go to PoA. There are ways to get out of PoA without dieing in pyramid. Even if someone is camping portal.
And if anything your arguments are more for taking away the arrows and all ranged attack. Because if you can sit in npk and kill in one or two shots someone in cpk that is unfair.
People have been camping portal and other cpk areas for time immemorial on this game. And there have always been ways to get past.
I am not saying I agree with what Elza is saying. Though it would in no way effect me. I have niether bow or crossbow skill as is. I do have other ranged skills, but I can not sit in safety and use them to kill someone sitting in cpk, I have to go into cpk to do that.
