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ok…lets clarify a few things..
first and foremost, its W A R L O R D.
with that out of the way....apparently, you've never read the help file for warlords or used their skills. two of the most devestating pk options in the game, weave and pursuit, belong to warlords (and warlady's for stareve's sake). since you apparently dont know, weave allows you to attack another target in pk...which is awesome, since you can never change your target without it unless you flee and come back. that means, you can pick off the weaker people in combat (which is a sweet tactic for formations in cpk). Pursuit is likewise just as devestating, bc it follows a person when they flee from combat (which is always a good thing esp since if they are running, its most likely because they are going to die). if you also look, the 1.5x things being discussed only kick in if you were the applicable class (like, 1.5x parry if you were a gladiator), where a warlord has no class requirements for any of the skills and spells they receive (which, btw....destroyers dont get spells either).
On a second note, as it was explained to me by syn, warcry doesnt give you a 1.5x damage enhancement and 1.5x defense chance...it gets between 20 and 40 percent increase...which is much less than you're claiming.
All in all, the balance of the two classes has already been tested and pointed out that atm, it is rather fair. both have a good use, both have unique skills and neither seems terribly overpowered. So, i'll leave it at that and continue on about my merry way.
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Speaking of persuit, does trackless step or the cloak of lord astral prevent the use of the skill, or reduce the chance of this skill working? Something I've wondered in the past, but never found out.
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Well, let me just say this, if you can't send a post without having some rude comment on it, then don't post something on this. There is no need to comment on a typo.
help war cry
The war cry skill allows Destroyers to infuse both themselves
and their party members with the destructive energy they are
known for. War cry increases the success chance of all of your
defenses and attacks by 1.5x. It also raises your strength.
That is where I got my info from, and if any one hasn't noticed the imms are working on changing the help file, and it would be good to read all of the many changes they have been making.
And still, seeing as Redraven has battled me as a 120 mort, he had a very tough time fighting me, and he isn't a destroyer. While any destroyer class owned me within a few rounds, and I hardly even see a warlord win against a destroyer for the most part. Pursuit is worthless if the player can flee into safe, of if the player they are fighting is too powerful for them to flee, and most people don't flee unless they know they can get to a safe point, or out of cpk, since fleeing lags them. So once again, I agree with Star on maybe making some type of boost for a warlord and crusader, to help even things out against destroyers.
Balder
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ugh, Warlady. That term need to be banished. It's a blemish.
Warpaint doesn't have to step on anyone's toes - I'm not asking for it to be an equivalent of war cry. it can do almost anything to promote aggression / courage, I'm just keen on the idea of war paint :twisted: So, who can come up with something for it to do that isn't just another word for war cry?
It could also be a mort skill, something to bring up whatever warrior class needs a boost - not certain at the moment.
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Hehe, well first Balder it was 2 typos, different and both just as bad within a couple of sentences, and typos are why this has abililty to preview. But anyways.
The only, thing that is somewhat overpowering in my opinion on warlords vs destroyers is the auto behead thing. What warlords could use would be a "finishing move". Your success vs me and not vs Spunky or Soth had to do with 2 things. 1)The finishing move. 2) Soth and Spunky(this one is begrudgingly) are both more experienced pkers than I am.
I made mistakes etc, I also was not best equipped to do maximum damage roll and hit roll, as they were ( I have improved on both of these)
I have a Warlord, a Destroyer and a Crusader. I personally think that of all the remort classes warrior subclasses are the most "balanced" with each other. Not saying each might not be able to use something to improve. But it is not the warcry that gives destroyer the lil boost. I think the balancing needs to be done more in the mage and thief classes, but that would be another thread on those specifics.
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I do agree that behead does give destroyers a major advantage. I can last a long time in a PK fight even if I am destined to lose, but it seems that even at 900 hp where it would take 3 rounds of combat to kill me, behead ends the fight right there. That's 3 rounds taken from me I could heal, and possibly even kill my opponant. I don't see any other class getting anything to this type of advantage.
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Well, there isn't really a good way to balance out warlords vs Destroyers. Warlords get useful helper skills, like leadership, healing aura, etc. However, other than leadership (which i am sure is commonly used in pk battles…) not many of the skills are worth a damn because they can be dispelled so easily. I so my point is, to have something that tones down a war cry in battle. Maybe war cry can't be used in battle vs. a warlord, the warlord can have some special skill to maybe even cancel it. Like bravery, which could affect frenzy, and affects like that. It could take some mana and moves to use it, but it would help in a battle. Behead, you can't take something like that away, maybe make it a command skill and not an auto skill, however just don't get too low on hp.
Balder
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as far as what the helpfiles say, thats fine. i got my information directly from the person who created it, which is fine by me. Just from observation though (having been around when the remort system was implemented), i havent seen some huge difference between warlords and destroyers which makes it completely unbalanced. The fact the 2 classes are supposed to be completely different anyway (in my eyes) justifies whatever skills they have and dont have. By the things said about it already (warlord having "helper skills" for instance)…thats what their skills do. Destroyers, on the other hand...destroy. We dont get helper skills. So we lose the ability to lend extra help to a formation or whatever, but are more aggressive and destructive in combat. Wow. Two classes that do pretty much what you're saying they do. Trying to balance classes so that everyone has something that cancels out something someone else has just seems silly, and completely defeats the point of choosing any class other than a predetermined set. Like, the bards music skill obviously needs something. spellcasting can be interrupted by bash, so if i slam into someone playing a musical instrument, i doubt they'd keep playing the song.
And since i dont post that often, i think behead being at 10% isnt terrible. sucks to be on the receiving end, but i wasnt aware it kicked in at 900 hp for ya myth? wouldnt it be like 500? i'm just guessing bc i cant see your screen, but i dont want the skill to be overpowered like that. if someone had me at 400 hp, the likelyhood of me winning, esp if they still had thousands of hp, would be small anyway...but its worth looking at if its kicking in at like 20% and not 10%. as far as making it a manual skill, that just sucks all around and without a solid reason to do so, i'd say let it be.
As far as something being overpowered, there are shitloads of things in the game which need attention. Druids (tree hugging hippies) having a powerful magical force called enchant weapon/armor being one of them. Powerful mages do such things, not someone who sits around in the woods and talks to rabbits all day. If nothing else, something like alchemist makes sense to have them, as alchemists create magical things (potions and scrolls currently) but would make more sense than druid, by far. I dont think that all classes should be able to cancel each other out then, bc you completely destroy the variety created by even going those things in the first place. If you want an aggressive character, choose marauder/destroyer...a questing character, go either paladin or gladiator and go crusader. gladiators have the choice of going destroyer as well, so the fact that if someone thinks they are overpowered bc they didnt go that class and are getting their ass handed to them...well, then thats just class choice and is a personal decision...not a game mechanics issue. its like going sorcerer for the web/silence combo, which is decidedly pk. if you're less into pk, you can go wizard...necromancer has spells like kill which at times is a viable (but difficult) pk option. that extends to the thief class (rogues dont get slit, assassins dont get steal or pick lock, ect) and so on....it all boils down to the type of character you want to create. whining bc you want a "helper character" and didnt get the other things destroyers did, and trying to limit them bc of it, is selfish and counterproductive. My suggestions would be to start over and redo the classes, thereby giving yourselves the options to do the things you want and not feel bad about it later. And that, as they say, is that.
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I'm going to read this topic in more detail in a minute just want to clarify something on war cry.. you're both right, it is a 1.5x boost to the chance of your defenses and offenses. However keep in mind most defense and offesnse calculations factor in a bunch of stuff, like dexterity, your oponnents weapon type, etc.
It boosts the *chance* of your defenses kicking in though. Basically each defense (or offense) has a chance which is calculated from dexterity, weapon typesl, your skill % at the defense, all sorts of things.
It usually ends up around 30-60% (of course this varies between the skills).
So a 1.5x increase from war cry would raise up the "will I dodge this attack/will I get an attack in combat" percentage by about 20-40%.
8)
I hope that was clear and not too confusing to anybody. Of course the actual numbers vary as your and your opponent's stats, skills, items you might be using, and some other stuff. But 20-40% is a good range.
To be more on topic though I like the idea of war painting myself Star 8)
IWe've tossed around an idea a few times of having alchemists or so have a tatooing skill in which they can gain magical spells as a sort of permy thing from a tatoo. Perhaps warlords could have this with boosted combat ability.
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Awesome Syn - I want a tattoo too :twisted: I mean think about it.. you think Warlord, doesn't that image come with some sort of badass accessories - tattoos, scary hair, intimidation tactics.. a big part of war is looking fierce - and a terrified enemy won't be as effective in combat.
To be fair though, so far the conversation has really been trying to shift to remort only. I was thinking more of new things that could go for mort or remort classes. A warpaint or tattoo skill would fit really well in a couple of the mort classes too, but maybe then not be very effective against remorts for balance.
Maybe you could make tattoos from quest items. Like quest for a vial of tattoo ink, then travel to a specific location for the type of tattoo you want.. like if you want a dragon tattoo with fly spell, travel to Kalandor where a new mob will give you a tattoo based on the town's famous dragon.
