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I dont want to argue but I have added my suggestions. And I dont want my race or any other race to be better than others. Thats the point of this disscusion, one race is clearly over cheesed. I do however like the stone skin idea and defanging of siths for antivenom.
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Hi guys, Ive scanned this topic for a bit. My conclusion is mostly like Ri and Xev said: there's no specific to downgrade the sith toxin ability, but some counter/preventative measure should be added. E.g. a high piercing armor rating, or some antidote which when taken can reverse the effects of the toxin.
Currently whether or not a sith bite works depends on a few things: level of attacker and victim, as well as their dexterity ratings and skills. However piercing armor isn't included in this. Perhaps if we made people with a higher piercing armor rating a little more resistant to the bite of the sith it would help things. I don't think getting immunity from this on any level would be a good thing because it would take away from one of the potentially coolest racial skills (if a little bit underdeveloped so far) in the game.
The second form of check I would propose would be a cure or a resistance for the effects of the toxin. This would also have to be restricted (e.g. not just a cure poison spell) because then people could just set it on a trigger once again knocking down the usefulness of the toxin skill. My idea for this would be an herb that if ingested before the battle would provide a temporary immunity/high resistance to the toxin. Having to take it before combat action might seem unappealing to some people, but I think it's the best way of making sure we don't ruin the sith character as their toxins are in actuality supposed to be real strong. Edit->we could let the herb have other beneficial effects, as well (maybe increased combat dexterity or move regain or something).
What does everyone think of these potential fixes for the problem? Ill leave this topic around for a bit longer to allow everyone to contribute.
8)
S.
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I think those ideas are fair for the most part. One of the things I was actually wondering about though is if the armor class maxes at a potential 1000 or if itll be caculated on the actual AC of say 1400? For something like this id say youd base it off actual AC to encourage a pker to go all out on AC. Course I could be wrong but i was under the impression that ac has a cutoff of 1000 then its all extra.
This brings another thing I was wondering about is if in the future the ac of armor will be changed to say different values for piercin/slash/bashing/exotic to encourage using different weapons besided swords?
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Good first steps Syn. But if that is the case. Make it so that sanctuary must be cast before battle (ie, cant rewear sanc item mid battle) in order for it to be effective vs kill spell)
Make blackjack usuable after combat starts. Calm only effective cast prebattle. Make sleep usuable after combat starts. etc.
I am sure most of you will realize I am not really serious about want these changes implemented. But if Sith have such an all powerful ability without the restrictions then these other skills/spells need the same thing.
As I have said there is no other skill that can take down a fully healed, fully maxxed remort that doesnt have restrictions of the nature of pre-combat only and/or easily re-instated blocks of them. Or better yet re-allow the scribing of dispel magic, kill scrolls. This was made an unavailable combo (at least by my understanding) for the reason that simply reciting this scroll would make it so that the target had no defense against death, regardless of health, skill, spells or equipment. And even this had the possibility of screwing up the reciting or one or the other of the spells not working. So yes with bite (sleep, whatever it is called)/slit throat there is a chance of failure. Of one or the other skills, but certainly no more than in the case of a dispel/kill scroll.
Actually I just thought of another possibility. Have the bite skill as it injects the toxin, drain a % of the current hp the sith has. Lesser % for the lesser toxins but I would say 50% for the sleep one. This could reflect the drawing on the life force of the Sith to generate and inject the toxin. Such hp/mana/move loss is not unheard of for use of a skill. Vamps (and I believe slayers) lose 50% hp, 100%mana and 50% move when shifting to werewolf (slayer) form. As well as losing any magical affects that have been cast on them, (not just the ones lost from removal of eq). This would make it more difficult for a sith to "spam bite". And even one bite, dropping it to 50% hp, would make it possible for the sith to be possibly beaten down before the toxin takes affect. As is with sith being able to have 3500+ hp(with eq) and Naga over 4K even the heavy damage dealing races and weapons would be hard pressed to do the damage before the toxin takes affect. This would also even out the one way that is not "luck related" to overcome affects and make it a viable combat option.
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And as far as the Naga being able to take full health to dead in one bite at 4th class, sure, As Long as a vamp can do it as well(not necessarily bite but some other way), and a dwarf and an elf, and titan, etc, etc, one shot kills have always been nerfed in some way shape or form before. And It is my opinion that the sith sleep toxin needs to be also, not just to make it less likely to hit, but some way to make it so that it wont hit, ie sanctuary is to kill, calm is to blackjack etc.
This "block" should be dispellable by dispel magic/cancellation and should be reinstateable either by spell casting during battle, potion, scroll, or even eq.
just as the above is, cept calm cant be in battle, but then you cant blackjack in battle either.
Another + to this solution would be that 1) it does not weaken the bite in anyway. ie the bite will still do the same thing. still have the same chance to hit/effect. And a well timed bite, ie right after dispel. Can still have desired effect. And would still be stronger than dispel in this respect 'cuz of a 0 "casting time" on the bite so less time to "rewear" the block.
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And stone skin to a bite of any kind. I do like that. How would any race that bites be able to do so through skin as strong as stone?
Stone skin should be able to prevent biting.
Sanctuary stops Kill.
Calm stops blackjack.
But yet, Nothing stops Behead or Smite either, and Behead is automatic.
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You actually have to get someone to hurt or awful for that, as opposed to being in excellent.
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Mythology yeah, that is kinda what i have been going for from the start. I am glad someone else finally said it. And yeah, Llauf mentioned, good health is protection from smite behead. So they are limited that way.
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Smite shouldn't have a block to it. People can't just change alignments just to avoid it. Though, I do think behead shouldn't be made to be automatically done. Sure, you have to get them lower than 25% to get it to work, but it works on everyone/thing so it is a fair trade off.
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Heya guys,
Ive made a few changes based on the discussions from this board.
First, I made it so that if your opponent has stone skin on, it reduces the chance of landing a successful bite by half. I did not want to make stone skin give an immunity because I thought it was too much. My original armour class idea was a bit harder to do than it would be worth, and I think stone skin is a fine defense against it for now.
Secondly I am going to implement a second defense against toxins, but this one will come a bit later. I've been playing around with some code for herbs and I've always wanted to add herbalism. Basically there are a variety of herbs, each of which will have to be gathered up from the wilderness or bought from a trader (but for a high price). The herbs, when eaten, will give you short-lasting resistances or perhaps even immunities to stuff. This could be used to protect yourself from Sith toxins as well as other things when you're going to battle, adventuring, etc.
Anyway that's my 2 cents on the topic :> I think that will be sufficient to balance out the sith toxins. I'm going to un-sticky this topic but leave it here in case anyone has any questions, comments, etc.
Also if you guys want to discuss smite/behead/other combat skills Id suggest you start a diff. topic because this one's getting a little cluttered.
8)
Thanks everyone, for your input.
S.
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Syn, that is great and I suppose it will be a help. But if 50% block is good enough for that to block it out, then how about sanctuary only being 50% block for kill spell, calm only being 50% block for blackjack etc…. it is logical going by what you said of sith bite. (only kidding on this, but it does follow)
How about adding a "casting time" similar to kill spell's to the sleep venom bite. And maybe making stone skin 100% block to that one, but not to others. From my perspective it is not the bite itself that is overpowered, just the one implementation of it.
The "logics" could go that in order to power the fangs with the sleep venom it makes them softer, so that they can not penetrate stone skin.
The "casting time" would prevent a dispel then trigger off the echo of stone skin going to bite. (wouldnt prevent it, but would give human reaction time to do what is needed to rewear stone skin eq, quaff stone skin potion etc)
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I still think that the Bite should be a sneak attack. I do like the stone skin idea a lot and it actually MAKES SENSE! It would be a little challenging to bite something with skin made of stone. Only problem with it, dispel/bite would render it pointless. There is no time to react.
I still say sleep bite should be something like black Jack, and can not be used during battle. And the way this stone skin idea looks, there is a way to counter it. I would think a 75% chance of it not being successful through stone skin would be a good idea. That or something a little better than 50%, seeing as it is something that should be considered taking the risk, or use a different method. And not all characters have perm stone skin, so I don't think it is such a bad idea. Then again, that is my opinion.
And I still made a sith/naga suggestion about the wrap up skill, allowing the sith to wrap around its target like web or ensnare. (if someone would leave a comment to see what they thought) This skill would require no casting time, but lag. It would take away the bash, circle, kick skills from both fighters, and if the sith can't flee once it wraps around its target. So it had better be sure it has its pray dead. Also, the skill can't be dispelled, making it an actual good pk skill I thought. Once again, this is my opinion.
Emtae
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This topic is being locked as this will degenerate into useless bitching and bickering about something that is being taken care of. Any new topics that spring up that bitch about this will be locked. I suggest any opinions about them be kept silent until they are needed.
