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There is a lot of merit in what elzamine has to say here, i for one would have no issue in keeping archery a elf/drow skill as it better suits them, for christs sake im a dwarf and shouldnt realy know the ass end of a bow.
I think that the principles elza has outlined here for her chosen race, if applied to all the races should give us all things that aree much more suited to our own races.
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I also agree - on that elves/drows should be the emphasis of bows and crossbows, and don't have much that is just theirs, and it is pretty funny to think of races that are supposed to be huge and slow with a bow. Think Mike Tyson in ballet slippers…. :lol:
On being able to infuse arrows/bolts to take advantage of an opponent's weakness by going ranger though I don't know.. I don't really like the idea that all new players created of any race are going to go one class because it'll give them a big boost over any player of the same race who goes a different class. It'll end up being unbalanced, like everyone going rogue. Seems to me it would encourage more diversity to have a skill linked to bow/crossbow or archery - if you get one, you get the other to enhance arrows/bolts. Or even better, a quest item to enhance them.. like a quiver you can select which affect to use ie put arrow quiver water. That would limit the ability to people who have worked for it... or if not a quest item, at least a higher level one, at least 3rd class. That's my 2 cents worth.
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I agree with Elza about Elves/Drows only getting bow/crossbow, and archery. Also Humans should get bow/crossbow, but no skill of archery.
I really cant imagine a Titan having the intelligence to learn how to use a bow or a crossbow.
I like the idea about infusing arrows. I dont feel it will end up unbalanced because i hear the damage is being tweaked way down.. so in the end it would be more like casting fireball or lightning bolt, except there will be more ways to dodge it.
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Well, seeing as every one wants to make it so elves rock using arrows, and take it away from titans as every thing else they have, lets think of why titans need arrows.
Malandors room- not like many remort, if any can enter there without getting the SHIT kicked out of them without killing the students first. Now if the titan doesn't have, after burn, or any other spell that i would know of to get the students first, the titan can use an arrow, if they have gained the ability from druid, which I have. So that is the only way that i would have an idea on to get malandor.
Example 2 would be the pkers/cpkers that like to think they are smart by sitting on the portal and trapping newbs, and any other person they don't like, or just want to annoy. Once again, the only method of getting them out of the portal is to shoot the hell out of them so they either come after you on pk, unless they were on another screen, and the set they has arrived- kill play sound DING
And yes, people do have those triggers, because if I know how to do it, I know the remorts who have played many years more than me have it. Any way, if they have that trigger on, they get shoot to death for being lame and sitting there. Now if you don't have after burn, which wont do too much good unless they aren't on the same screen, you are pretty much screwed over. You can't lure them out because the trigger will kill you so fast, you are never going to make it into the portal, so you will have to zap yourself with a fire ball, or remove invis and go into pyrmid to let yourself get killed.
Last but not least, people are wanting to take away skills that have been worked on for many hours, I for one mastered both archery and bow, and spent thousands on, and though many people think it will be a trigger like always, I was actually, there shooting away while watching movies.
There are MANY more reason why people shouldn't just take away the ability, and because people will still want to change it, make a -5% bonus on them, just as elfs get a +5 bonus, that will make it fair. And can people please pick topics that don't involve in some way changing titans so they are weaker, I would like to see something more slayers, liches, and minoraurs. Every other person makes a comment on titans, if they are so great, why are there only 3 big titans? (Arkain, Alya, Balder)
Balder
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I was killing malandor before I even hit 120 pre-remort, pre-maxed out. If people can't kill him, then there is something wrong with the player, not the character. And, this was killing off all the students first, without using songs or scrolls. You need another arguement.
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Malandor has been around longer than arrows, bolts and archery. By no means are ranged weapons needed to kill him. ranged weapons have only made things considerately easier. That will lessen with the update, with arrows/bolts doing less, the kill/flee would be faster, or just tanking.
From what I see, anyone who says they require these ranged weapons, really needs to learn to play this game. Some are too used to the unbalanced damage on them. I can't wait until they're updated and fixed. until the fix, they're just an unfair advantage being abused. If you NEED them to kill mobs, then you frankly lack at the basis of the game. And since that's coming from me, who's vary partial to arrows.
As for the people sitting at the portals. This is nothing new. There are ways to get around it, and if you can't figure it out, then that's your problem. Ranged weapons aren't that old, people played the game before them. Suck it up Balder.
As I said, elves would have the archery which is a good skill yes. Other races have good skills too, only available to them. Those who don't, should be given such. I'm not arguing that fact in the least.
On the other hand, if removing the ranged from other races (other than elf/drow/human) is that much of a problem.. then archery should be taken away from everyone except elves (possibly drow, but they do have the extra defense) And something better than a 5% accuracy bonus should be given. Because frankly from what I see, the bonus doesn't do a whole lot. It's been tested between me and a dracon (on the test port) and the extra accuracy really doesn't make a major difference.
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From what I see, you aren't reading all of what I have said and you are trying to make me look like an ass. I never said there aren't ways around getting back to plith, like i said kill yourself in the pyrmid, but you say there is another way around the portal in your last statement, now if there is another way by all means tell, because if not, then you should stop trying to snap at me about it. And hurray for arrows being toned down, they are cheap, and i have said it, but it doesn't mean they are worthless. I don't feel like getting cpk or risking it, but looking for a way to get out of the abyss if there is such a way. If someone wants to sit on the portal, I don't want to make them happy be dieing one way or another without taking a stand, i am going to shoot the ever living piss out of them, and I would expect the same to happen to me.
Balder
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Risk of CPK is the Point Balder. If there wasnt a risk then there wouldnt be a need to go to PoA. There are ways to get out of PoA without dieing in pyramid. Even if someone is camping portal.
And if anything your arguments are more for taking away the arrows and all ranged attack. Because if you can sit in npk and kill in one or two shots someone in cpk that is unfair.
People have been camping portal and other cpk areas for time immemorial on this game. And there have always been ways to get past.
I am not saying I agree with what Elza is saying. Though it would in no way effect me. I have niether bow or crossbow skill as is. I do have other ranged skills, but I can not sit in safety and use them to kill someone sitting in cpk, I have to go into cpk to do that.
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I do know that cpk has been around for some time, and I do know that camping at the portal is an old habit, but however, I do now know of any way to get get back to plith without the use of the portal, as i am sure most others newbs are the same too. But this is a furom for suggestions, not arguing.
So a suggestion for titans and bows, seeing as every one wants a titans to be slow, and shitty with magic, and have no ranged attacks, i will put in my points to defend us few. Making the bow/crossbow attacks slower would be fine, but as people want titans to be slow and do more damage for a theme, making the titans do more damage would be only fair, seeing as a titan is huge, they aren't going to shoot something the size of a pencil compared to them, they are going to shoot something close to there size, if people can see my point. So wielding a big ass bow, and huge arrows, would seem more realistic if a theme is to be made. And if a suggestion is to be made about elves, just make them shoot the damn things faster. Since they are the faster race, along with drows.
Balder
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As red said, people have been camping the portal forever. And as I've said, arrows/bolts haven't been around forever.
As for people sitting in cpk at the portal and shooting you. Think about it. What logic is there in that? The victim can go stand in npk and lose nothing.
Regardless however, ranged weapons go out of range easily, and take a few seconds to shoot. So as for how to get around them? RUSH and kill them for god sakes. If you can't, then level until you can. Learn to pk might help too.
Frankly this argument about ranged weapons being essential to get through the portal is a joke. Other people get through without ranged. If you can't kill them, die out, or wait until they're not waiting. Rather simple.
I don't need to make you look like an ass Balder, you do it all on your own. People don't have to agree with me, and I'm sure many don't, but at least the examples I'm giving are supported correctly.
Arrows and bolts ARE cheap, which is why people don't stand in npk and kill people in cpk with them. I never said ANYTHING about them being worthless after being toned down however. If I did, I wouldn't be trying to make an arguement that only certain races should have it. They'll be balanced after the update, not worthless.
Now aside from what I was saying in the first place.
If the idea of taking the crossbow and bow away from other races except for what I specified in my original arguement, is too much. Then I was thinking perhaps making the skill more useful for drow and elves. Leave the accuracy bonus, but perhaps give a couple support skills? Someone has mentioned perhaps being able to shoot two arrows at once or double the speed on the shooting time. Perhaps if the super infuse idea goes through, make it permanent?
They're all ideas, I'm not certain which ones I'd prefer.I like my original arguement more, but I could see people arguing.. but like I said, giving all the races something special would even things out ant justify them. Perhaps giving some of the race abilities some range would help too. I'd just like to see elves get something special that everyone else doesn't have.
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I don't see why there is a need to address Balder. All it is, anymore, is whining/bitching because he took a race that is being nerfed, and rightly so. Instead of whining that everyone wants to take everything from Titans, start making suggestions and don't start with "Snivelsnivel I said to make them do more damage with bow!!!! I r jeanyus!!" Which someone did suggest to make titanic attack basically an enhanced enhanced damage.
In lore, Titans suck at magic. They are average with clerical duties. They are horrible at sneaking around and putting their huge hand into pockets to steal things. So guess what they have left. As a collosus, give them an AC bonus for their thick hide. Additional hand to hand damage beyond what the suggested change to titanic attack gives. Playing off their strength, collosus has inherent giant strength at all times, no need to cast it. At full moons, they have giant bullseyes appear in the middle of their forehead for people to shoot.
And, this is a place for arguements and debate, not whining just because something bad is happening. This is how ideas get formed and implemented. Of course, if you think that every idea that gets put out without being hashed out first is what happens, then there would be a hell of a lot more stupidity out there.
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Yep once again, people want to agrue for a stupid reason, well Elz, people don't go after you, mainly do to the fact that you are a girl and lets face it, how many girls are attacked and pked by any one other than arkain? And me killing alya only once… But any way that isn't the point, you all just want to make an ass out of me "snivel snivel" well i don't see you do much other than idle ith, and Elz, you don't need to worry about pks, so you feel that trying to make the "you make yourself an ass" bull shit, needs to stop, from now on, how about we keep this forum for suggestions only, and make this a useful place for suggestions hrmm? I put in my info and all you seem to do is just assume you shouldn't agree with me and just because it is me. And also, no shit, people have been camping at the portal for ever, i know for the love of god. It isn't ablivus to me, and people dumb enough to run into the portal without looking are retarded. So if you want to test a way to get around the portal, do it against a high pker that wouldn't care lell who you are. Arkain is the only person who will kill any one and not really care who you are, that i can think of.
Balder
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For someone commenting on people arguing over stupid things, you just made a reply that has nothing to do with the topic. Not to mention, seems to have been made only to bash me, and my gender. On top of that you took a shot at Ith, when he wasn't taking anyone's side.
My assumptions were made with fact at least. I argued my concept of bows, and I argued your reasoning for titan's needing them as well. I'm not arguing the concepts because it's you, if so I wouldn't be supporting my ideas. I'm only addressing those who are addressing me.
Funny you mention assumptions. Don't blame my gender for the reason people don't camp my ass to kill me. I know how not to get killed in this game. I've been pked by far more people than Arkain. I just happened to learn something from it.
Back to topic. As I said, the ranged weapons if given to the races I specified would possibly need some more testing. I said that all along. Ith had some good ideas for what could be done to Titan to help make up for things. Various additions and/or changes to current racial skills could be made to balance it out for all races really. Moreso, I usually use Titan or Mino as my comparison against elves and drow, merely for the fact I consider them to be bulkier, slower more brawn oriented races than the agility of the elf/drow.
However, an idea aside from taking the ranged weapons away from other races. For elves, the idea od speeding them up makes decent sense. The wait for the shooting time could be sped up instead. Better speed, better accuracy. Perhaps combine it with being able to shoot two arrows at once. Maybe an arrow shot off during the round as well as between rounds if timed right? It seems incharacter for the race, but it would need some testing to see how other races can respond.
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I don't like the idea of two arrows being shot at once, to be honest. Even if the most powerful arrow does 300, which I think it is higher than that in test, that is 600 damage and rather devastating. Or if it is implemented, reduced accuracy since it really is difficult to get off two arrows at once.
I do like the idea of a general skill which is an automatic skill that will allow increase to shooting time, which could be called rapid-fire, quick-fire, skirmish or something like that. Could go 1% faster per 10% in the skill. Not a great deal breaker, but could be quite an advantage to the prepared.
These are good ideas to add to mortal races as they are basic things that should be developped and gained during that time, I think, but as remorts, a bit something else, perhaps, like infusing spells, which I still kind of flinch at when I think of it. Not saying it isn't a good idea, just that it could be really powerful.
Haven't really thought of anything other than what I posted a few posts ago about it. Hard to think of something that would be decent and balancing.
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Going to do anything nice for your two mystics in the game. We are soo over looked….hehehehe.
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I think additional bow skills for the elf is really the way to go, by the looks of it now its hard or impossible to get an arrow off inbetween rounds, this is certainly something an elf of all things should be able to do weather this is done by an additional skill or a racial bonus dosen't really matter i suppose,
i also wanna suggest an enhanced ranged damage skill? elves are known of have greater eyesight and good shots, this would merely reflect shooting for more vital areas at the same time i suggest it obviously shouldn't be huge amounts of damage either. And elza's idea on the uber infuse is a nice one, same as infuse but permanent, that could work as it dosen't really include more damage than the existing skill.
On a side a race with a racial haste should have at least a change of side stepping or dodging arrows, even if it isn't as great as the chance of melee. The two arrow idea might be nice for a high level peice of eq but i don't think i should be a skill, with archery in combat as it is, shooting once between rounds with timing is well enough really.
Bout the only thing i could suggest for titan and ranged is to give them the ability to throw larger weapons for larger damage,… slowly :P but a bow in those chubby digits? i don't fink so. I like most of Ith suggestions for the titan/colloss anyway.
later
Sa.
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Heya guys,
Let me preface this by saying thank you all very much for your input. It's been very helpful and I've come up with some good ideas to modify my original ones.
What I'm going to do for now close this topic, and in a week or two create seperate topics for each race addressing this. I think I underestimated the scope of this issue, but that's perfectly okay because it will add lots of depth to the game, it will just take a little longer to implement than previously thought 8)
The topic will remain here for now, so that I have some good stuff to refer to when I am putting together updated remort racial abilities. After I post the individual race topics, I will also post a twelfth threat summarizing the plans. That thread will be used for discussion in terms of balancing the races against each other, whereas the individual threats will be used for developing ideas particular to a remorted race.
Now to address a few things I saw in the post. Star, I do agree with you that forum input does reflect the people who are participating, and those tend not to be the newbies. However I don't think it's such a big deal because we are deciding remort races, and we wouldn't want newer players who don't know as much about the game to necesarrily dominate the scene (not at all saying they shouldn't be allowed to post, just saying that I don't think lack of their participation is a huge problem). I would definitely love to see more input from players from all walks of the game, though, on other issues. Perhaps we should advertisie some more.
I also agree with your point that my plans for drow are more defensive and that drow is already a race whose defensive skills are pretty strong. Their defining traits are stealth and magical supremacy, not necesarrily defensive fighting. I'll work something to boost their offensive skills some to account for this. Also, I'll have a look at the firing-time for crossbows; if it's not worth it, I will reduce it some.
As to the idea of spells on arrows (I forget who brought this up), I've given it some thought and decided that putting any spell affect on projectiles is a little much at the moment. I do believe that you should be able to put certain properties on them, poison being the one which comes to mind first, as well as sharpness. I am also open to the idea of allowing them to be infused with shocking, flaming, etc, although I think these affects should wear off after some time just like with real weapons. However we will need to think about this infusion long and hard such that it doesn't make one subclass dominate others due to the fact that they can exploit vulns of races.
Myth, I take your point very well about hell barons and minotaurs being an offensive as opposed to defensive race. I've thought about it and the reduction of damage does seem too much, and also unfitting. I will definitely find a way to emphasize their horns since they are the part of the defining visual traits of the minotaur species. We can discuss this when I post the new topics up, as I am a little short on ideas for this which haven't been done already (sure we could make another damaging attack out of the horns, but it would have to be special - otherwise it would just be another version of bash or kick).
I also think you really have something in saying the dragon should use their claws more. You're right- they're huge, and they probably wouldn't use hand-held weapons. A draconian would, but for a dragon to do so is a little bizarre. Once I find a proper way to balance hand-to-hand fighting, I will definitely use the claws as well as breath as a primary weapon of attack for drags. To those out there that are dragons, don't be worried - I'll make it worth it, and you will still be able to use weapons (I see no reason why a dragon can't hold something in one of those huge claws 8))
A note to balder: if you're not capable of formulating logical thoughts, using correct grammar, and being respectful of others, you're not welcome on this board, so go post in the whining forum because that's what it is for. This forum is for intelligent people to discuss changes they think would make the game better. It requires an objective point of view, not a "oh-poor-me-i'm-getting-fucked-over attitude". Additionally I don't see what CPK, PK, or gender has AT ALL to do with this topic. I don't believe you're right on the points you've brought up, but even if you were, it would be moot because THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS TOPIC IS FOR. You can spare your breath on accusing me of playing favorites/taking sides because I've already anticipated it. Yes, I take sides with people who have half a brain, are polite and don't jump to conclusions. Deal with it or get the hell out.
Elz, I see your point about lack of skills specific to just elves. You definitely are on a right track there. Now, as to making archery specific to them… this idea is pretty lucrative to me, and I must say am really glad to hear people supporting something for the sake of game diversity and balance rather than just their own gain. I am really tempted to do it. However, though, I will have to think long and hard about it, not at all because I'm opposed to the idea of elves having a unique skill, but because I would like to see people using ranged... this is probably a little biased because I implemented it 8). Most likely what I'll do is sort of compromise the two viewpoints and, while not taking the ability to shoot bows and crossbows away from everyone, give elves more unique skills relating to archery, and make them clearly the winner in that field. That wouldn't be a complete solution to the uniqueness(is that even a word?) situation for elves, and I will definitely have to come up with something else. But it's a start :)
As to other races not being able to use crossbows/bows, it is something I agree with to an extent. I could definitely not see a dwarf or a dragon doing it, not because they aren't able, but because they are races which just don't do that - they prefer other weapons due to the history and lore of their races (which I do, by the way, plan on working on ASAP.) It's not that they __shouldn't__ be able to use bows/arrows at all (with possible exception of the dwarf), it's that they wouldn't be good at it because they have never had an interest in it. A possible solution would be reserving the "behind back" wear-spot to the elf, drow, vampire, sith and human because whipping out a bow and shooting that quickly requires lots of agility and dexterity that only they, the human-sized races, have.
So, I think even though discussing mortal races is a bit off topic, I will address it because it is a good point; I will most likely drop ability of the larger and smaller (and different-kind) races to use archery (but not take it away), and increase the elf and drow's ability to do the same.
Phew. Sorry for the length of this topic, but I wanted to try and address everyone's point. I'm going to close it just because it's a big issue and getting a little too hard to understand as one big lump, and will open some topics for the individual races later, along with my revisions. With this, a bit more discussion on mortal races, and the new PC race we are going to add in (yes, I know what it is, and no, I'm not telling anyone yet 8)) we will extend the depth of PC races a great bit and make them more unique and fun to play.
Thank you all for your comments and criticisms, you've been great. Have a good one. Sentience kicks ass :D
