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True, but that would just have to be a penalty for using an instrument. If you can play the instrument through spell deflection and silence, Therefore i really think instruments need to be held.
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I was saying, not be able to play thru spell deflection. And making the instrument targetable or making it room affect for silence. To make silence useful vs music.
And penalty for using instrument should be loss of an attack or two while playing, not every round. IMHO
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If songs are not magical in any way, then how would they have an affect?
even mind influence (charm person) is magical, so saying the song affects the target in that sense still shows magical affect.
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I can play music in no magic rooms. I can dispel, curse, energy drain, blind, etc., mobs immune to magic.
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i don't mean things you can do in the game, i mean give me a reason why songs shouldn't be considered magical.
I don't agree that mobs immune to magic or no magic rooms should allow songs, or at least songs that have an affect.
bards should be able to play songs that have no magical affects!
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Music is a heard affect, which in its own right is "magical." I do think that bard songs should be more tailored to be a unique. For attacking, chords can be song. Minor ones could hit target one person. More elaborate could break vials in inventory, target the whole room. Other songs could give possible effects, like a song of silence, song of death, song of healing, song of sleep, etc. These would be things that are constantly going once the song starts until stopped or silenced.
Music, though, affects moods. I am not all that fond of them doing damage, but with what we have at the moment, it isn't bad. Relaxing someone to drop the affects on themselves, or allowing them to become hardened to the things around them (armor, shield, stone skin), etc. I can't justify all of them, but just some thoughts.
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My two cents..
Allow songs to be played without an instrument in the form of a ballad. Possibly nerfing in the form of a negative penalty to speed, or a penatly in power of the song. Theres no reason they cant entertain without an instrument.
Silence stops playing of songs without holding of an instrument.
Far as spell deflection, i believe the class was made to coincide with a bard, and it is the least popular of classes, do we want to make it worse?
And i believe the 2 things people are angry the most about is the coa nonsense, which ill have to agree on, losing to a player that spams coa is infuriating to say the least. The second would be a player using the illusionist trick. I believe that was the point of illusionist as I said.
Im liking the idea that the spells should be less agressive and perhaps more tricky in the form of confusion in some sort of manner. Some ideas i had were perhaps removing eq at random, false messages, a chance to hit yourself, things like that, perhaps incorporating some jester elements? As for mob effects, the confusion spell could cause them to attack themselves, things like that. The idea that a spell causes a bard to spew forth a fireball, draining life, and raising the fires of hell just is not right. What the hell is in that tuba?
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Alright first off if a bard's song has no effect wtf is the point of having it?? What, should we go play for the mayor or king and get some silver or gold for it?? How many spells are there that do nothing? There would be no point whatsoever to having a song that does absolutely nothing. As far as mess ups with songs it happens. I have gotten hit with backfires a good amount of times. I've died once or twice from CoA backfiring and dispelled myself a time or 2 with another gate. This has happened while having a target and not.
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Music can backfire?? That must be a 1 in a million chance or maybe im a virtuoso?
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i have never heard of music backfiring.
Although getting bashed over the head while playing/singing could make it difficult and could cause music failure, as would spell casting failure.
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imho, it was my understanding that being able to play through silence, or nomagic, was the whole main perk to being bard. after all, do note that if you go bard you don't get backstab (well not unless you go highwayman later), or blackjack. you take away their ability to play through silence and nomagic and you take away their main perk, ALTHOUGH, i will say that it's a nice way to get a few necro skills if you're good aligned *shrug*
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Well you wont belive this but i had coa backfire today heh, first time since playing though, so it is extremely rare.
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I've never had a mis"cast" with music in my entire time using it, much less a backfire.
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I have had "backfires" happen several times. Now this is not frequent but it does happen. Magic on the other hand (without someone counterspelling) has never backfired only mis cast.
Also it should be known, music is mastered. And with it being mastered it shouldnt backfire frequently, but it does happen.
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It almost seems to me that the silence spell should be a zone of no sound, which would counter speaking, casting, AND music… Maybe by making silence affect the room instead of the person, it wouldn't be so powerful or decisive... Or perhaps a separate spell, such as a cone of noise, which could have a chance of countering a bard's song.
and look at me pay attention... I agree with Red! :}
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yeah I have had music affect me one time that I recall. It was in the arena with myth. Dispelled myself and died very fast.
Emtae
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Of course if silence becomes room affecting, and affecting music, then not only does the opponentn not cast spells, noone cast spells that have a verbal component.. Hence why, a "verbalize" skill should be available (not sure what class), or some minor healing spell available that does not require sound.
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A few things on bards.
Bard song Curse of the abyss
Song costs 100 mana.
Casts fire ball, demon fire, energy drain.
Would like to see it cast Web, Demon Fire(or just curse) and weaken or plague.
The other ones aren't too bad. I don't mind any of them. They aren't all that powerful as most can tell. They are rarely used, other than the healing song, and faerie fire. The other ones are used, just not a whole lot.
And bards not being able to play without and instrument.
Well bards are entertainers, if I am correct. And they are also able to sing, and do tricks etc. Well, it seems like a bard would be able to sing a song if not using an instrument. Well, if silenced, they shouldn't be able to sing. Thus not be able to sing songs. Well, the instrument being in inventory and playing music.. well, when actually playing a song, it is just like a spell. You lose your turn if you time it wrong. So either way, I can see how that would work. And some people want to make it so that bards have to wear an instroment. Well it is easy to make an alias like say:
ALIAS NAME Play Rem shield;wear tuba;play
SECOND ALIAS pp 'pretty in pink'
THIRD ALIAS 00 Remove tuba; wear shield
SECONDARY WEAPON Kite shield
PLay pp soldier
remove shield;wear tuba; 'play pretty in pink' soldier
00
remove shield;wear shield.
Now that command takes about 3 seconds, easy to get through a round of battle for a quick spell. So unless blinded, making the player wear a instrument is pointless when they can do that. And it makes spells faster all the time any way because of the instrument bonus. But in a nut shell, the curse song could use some changing… sorry about the long reading.
Emtae
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To take a page from Emtae:
….trying to argue with someone who's **bard** is pointless. They don't want to lose it because it is their only real way of winning. I know they are simple to beat. Granted they are tougher than some **classes**, but still aren't that difficult to take on if fighting them correctly. And the same goes for people that are 120's and getting owned because one successful **song** wins the battle. So I thought of an idea about **bard music**….
Let's make them even more powerful while at the same time nerfing an entire race.
All joking aside, I think if you want to play music with your voice, that you are highly susceptible to silence, and take much longer to do since it's not done by instruments endowed with magic. Hell, let's add an even bigger requirement to bards. You have to play a magical instrument to get any spell affects from songs. Using your voice should require you to be blessed and/or have 2-3x the mana needed to do the song.
As far as not having to hold an instrument? Coming from a titan is comical. What? You want to be able to use two-handers, another weapon or a shield, a light AND have the manual dexterity and ABILITY to play an instrument? You've got to be joking. It's absurd enough that you've got three hands (or two if the light really floats) and want another one. Personally, and this could go into a new topic, you should only be able to hold/wield/use two items .... if you only have TWO hands. That includes any combination of a light, one or two weapons, a shield AND an instrument.
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I Disagree on silence becoming a room affecting spell. Perhaps making another spell that affects the room working like silence making a room nomagic/nomusic for perhaps the same amount of time an inferno or wither would take. Wands, staves and potions however still being affective. Silence as it is should stay the same.
Also, emtae the reason i want it only worn or only sung is because if you can do both and your singing at first and i silence you, you can do your little alias to wear your instrument thus making my moonstone completely useless.
